Pirates

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hvidtfeldt

New Member
A few videos from Absalon (in danish unfortunately)
http://politiken.tv/nyheder/udland/absalontv/article578735.ece

The Absalon carries a detachment from 'Frømandskorpset' (SEALs) .
They are living in special habitations containers on the flex-deck as can be seen in some of the video's on the above link.
For boarding action I guess that 10 to 15 SEAL's are embarked together with some Military Policemen.

There are more videos at http://www.forsvarskanalen.dk
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Just a quicky confirmation, the Amiral Vinogradov large ASW ship is on it's way to India for joint exercises, after which it will proceed to relieve the Neustrashimiy on anti-piracy duty. It also carries marines on board, though the numbers are unclear.

Also we have the USA suggesting for a resolution to allow land operations against the pirates in Somalia. Sorry my only source is in Russian.

http://newsru.com/world/11dec2008/tierra.html

Well coupled with the EU anti-piracy task force, I think we finally have some organized effort to deal with it. Does anyone here think that land-based operations would be successful in destroying the bases from which they operate?
 

John Sansom

New Member
I'd say that a hit, rescue, and run onshore assault would result in the pirates reconstituting whatever base(s) came under the gun. The alternative, of course, may well be attack, overwhelm, and occupy.

Here's the queestion" Who'd want to get involved in that sort of exercise? The Somali "government" would be most unhelpful, of course, and memories of Mogadishu present an inhibiting factor of considerable dimensions. As for a USA-sponsored UN resolution permitting onshore ops, it would be interesting to know the mechanics thereof.

Best current bet would seem to be beefed up escort commitments along with active and very aggressive patrolling. Very aggressive patrolling indeed.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I'm thinking is means more like marine raids on the pirate facilities if need be, rather then a fullscale invasion. The EU is hardly up to it, NATO is up to it's ears (politically) with Afghan. Russia doesn't have the logistics (or money, or desire), and nobody else has the projection to do it long term.
 

John Sansom

New Member
Affirmative. That's what I envisioned when I mentioned the "hit and run" aspect of the proposal. The problem is, these things have a nasty habit of turning out to be something not looked for once executed. I suspect, too, that that any such raids would have to be a whole lot more than pin pricks. A truly significant military hammer would have to be applied and collateral damage and casualties would be a natural by-product.

Perhaps the hammer should also be applied to Ahmed Dahir Suleyman's much vaunted world-wide contacts. These alleged fences and enablers could probably "benefit" from some serious police attention.

As a something of an afterthought, how many of these alleged pirate havens are there, and to what extent does their topography, not to mention probable defences, lend themselves to attack?
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
SPON reports that the (classified) RoE for Atalanta, to be signed off by parliament on friday, contain permission for German ships to engage, board or sink pirate ships.

German Ships will each take on a 3-man military police team to handle any criminal proceedings and documentation and to ensure proper handling of any prisoners made.
Germany will be able to reassign any of its ships from CTF150 to Atalanta as needed.
 

ROCK45

New Member
Un

I hope some of these pirates become targets now while their refueling etc, let the people on land see a few being taken out. I thought this might have a effect on the situation, sure hope we do something with it.

UN gives OK to land, air attacks on Somali pirates
1 hr 29 mins ago


UNITED NATIONS – On the same day Somali gunmen seized two more ships, the U.N. Security Council voted unanimously Tuesday to authorize nations to conduct land and air attacks on pirate bases on the coast of the Horn of Africa country.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was on hand to push through the resolution, one of President George W. Bush's last major foreign policy initiatives.

Rice said the resolution will have a significant impact, especially since "pirates are adapting to the naval presence in the Gulf of Aden by traveling further" into sea lanes not guarded by warships sent by the U.S. and other countries.

The council authorized nations to use "all necessary measures that are appropriate in Somalia" to stop anyone using Somali territory to plan or carry out piracy in the nearby waters traversed each year by thousands of cargo ships sailing between Asia and the Suez Canal.

That includes the use of Somali airspace, even though the U.S. appeased Indonesia, a council member, by removing direct mention of it, U.S. officials said.

Somalia Foreign Minister Ali Ahmed Jama, whose government asked for the help, said he was "heartened" by the council action. "These acts of piracy are categorically unacceptable and should be put to an end," he said.

The resolution sets up the possibility of increased American military action in Somalia, a chaotic country where a U.S. peacekeeping mission in 1992-93 ended with a humiliating withdrawal of troops after a deadly clash in Mogadishu, as portrayed in the movie "Black Hawk Down."

The commander of the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet expressed doubt last week about the wisdom of staging ground attacks on Somali pirates. Vice Adm. Bill Gortney told reporters it is difficult to identify pirates and said the potential for killing innocent civilians "cannot be overestimated."

Rice played down the differences between the State Department and Pentagon, telling reporters that the U.S. was fully committed to preventing pirates from establishing a sanctuary.

"What we do or do not do in cases of hot pursuit we'll have to see, and you'll have to take it case by case," she said. "I would not be here seeking authorization to go ashore if the United States government, perhaps most importantly, the president of the United States, were not behind this resolution."

Spurred by widespread poverty in their homeland, which hasn't had a functioning government for nearly two decades, Somali pirates are evading an international naval flotilla to intercept huge tankers, freighters and other ships to hold for ransom. A tugboat operated by the French oil company Total and a Turkish cargo ship became the latest victims Tuesday.

Pirates have hijacked more than 40 vessels off Somalia's 1,880-mile coastline this year. Before the latest seizures, maritime officials said 14 vessels remained in pirate hands — including a Saudi tanker carrying $100 million worth of crude oil and a Ukrainian ship loaded with tanks and other heavy weapons. Also held are more than 250 crew members.

Rice said the resolution will allow the tougher action needed to quell the piracy, which she blamed on Somalia's turmoil.

"Once peace and normalcy have returned to Somalia, we believe that economic development can return to Somalia," she said. "This current response is a good start."

Under the resolution, nations must first get a request for an attack from Somalia's weak U.N.-backed government, which itself would be required to notify U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon before any attack.

"Piracy is a symptom of the state of anarchy which has persisted in that country for over 17 years," Ban told the council. "This lawlessness constitutes a serious threat to regional stability and to international peace and security."

In Washington, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman declined to discuss any possible military operations, but acknowledged there are "practical challenges" to combating pirates. He said the U.S. would continue to work with allies in the region and encourage shipping companies to take prudent measures to protect their vessels.

The United Nations also has been urging shipping and insurance companies not to pay ransom for captured ships, saying that encourages more piracy.

He Yafei, China's vice minister for foreign affairs, told the Security Council that China is considering sending warships to the Gulf of Aden, where they would join ships from the U.S., Russia, Denmark, Italy and other countries.

Kenya's military chief, Gen. Jeremiah Kianga, said Tuesday his country will increase patrols along its own coast because the Somali piracy has made business at Kenya's main port more expensive. The Kenyan air force and navy will not enter Somali air space or waters, he said.

Antonio Maria Costa, executive director of the Vienna, Austria-based U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, said Tuesday that it is important for nations to jointly confront pirates.

"Regional cooperation is essential," Costa said. "A few years ago, piracy was a threat to the Straits of Malacca (in Southeast Asia). By working together, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand managed to cut the number of attacks by more than half since 2004."

___

Associated Press writers Ahmed Al-Haj in San'A, Yemen, William J. Kole in Vienna, Austria, and Barbara Surk in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, contributed to this report.

Link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081216/ap_on_re_af/piracy
 

JHC

New Member
Well, i think its good to have the option to hunt them on land to. But id prefer not to, if "hit and run" attacks are made, and civilians die, the public opinion for the operations might become negative. And it may also increase the violence among the pirates. Putting the hostages at greater risk.

What i think is needed is combined efforts both by stabilizing the country, political and increase the maritime security of the coast. Cause after all trade routs are like blood veins for the world economy.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Jeanne d'Arc and GEAOM will be in the area in January again.

We'll probably see some action on land at that point, i'd wager - considering she was involved in the last responding land raid too.
 

JHC

New Member
Iam assembling a list of ships in the area, And just wonder if someone has a nice link with info about operation Atalanta, what ships are there atm, when they are to be replaced etc.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Certainly seems to be a lot of ships operating in the area.

There must be some pretty serious priates if they are involved in Tank smuggling and nearly every permanent seat in the UN has a least one destroyer in the area.

And now we are talking about a land war? I am guessing this isn't a few opportunists with a speed boat and a Ak-47 and a RPG?

How organised are these pirates and how many are operating in the area?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Now this is getting interesting. The Admiral Vinogradov with two tankers and tow-ship have met up with the Neustrashimiy, whose presence in the area has been extended until middle of January 2009. On it's way to join them is the Petr Velikiy (yes the Kirov-class nuclear cruiser) making this the largest Russian Navy deployment in a long time. As far as I can tell this would make the Russian naval presence in the area the most significant if we don't take NATO or the EU as a whole. The Admiral Vinogradov does have a detachment of marines on board, but it's not specified how many. Do you guys think this buildup of forces (which comes shortly after land-based operations were permitted by the UN) could signify something?

On one hand using the Petr Velikiy for anti-piracy duties is a ridiculous over kill. On the other hand that's 3 combat ships. Iirc the Kuznetsov cruise last year included two including the Kuznetsov (just like this year), same with the Venezuelan exercises. And the Vinogradov isn't carrying marines on board for no reason. If only we knew how many there were we would be able to guess whether they're there for a land-based operation or not.

http://lenta.ru/news/2009/01/02/flot/
 

John Sansom

New Member
Yes, Feanor, it is interesting. That's a heck of a lot of naval muscle to be introducing to the Somali mix. Still, there may be a couple of "other" dynamics at work here, too.

First, it's very important for Russia to "show the flag" in as many locales around the globe as possible. In essence, it's the Bear saying--quite appropriately--"My fleet is not made up of rust and mothballs, just check it out." The Somali pirates have provided this legitimate and useful opportunity for a follow-on to the South American visit(s).

At the same time (again courtesy of the "pirates"), Russian naval personnel are being afforded an excellent hands-on, real-life training opportunity, one demanding a high level of participation from every crew member in the fleet.
At the same time, the Russsian public is being afforded an opportunity to hear some good news about the fleet; news which does not involve tragic losses of life among submariners.
 
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John Sansom

New Member
My apologies to all. Heaven alone knows how the last three syllables of "submariners" in my most recent post somehow appeared way, way down on the page. And I can't figure out how to fix it without re-posting the same item.

Perhaps there's a moderator who can deal with it...and help me get over my guilt.:(
[Mod edit]Fixed it for you ;)[/Mod edit]
 
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wzhtg

New Member
Pirates chased off

RMN helps Indian tanker

By LESTER KONG


PETALING JAYA: The Royal Malaysian Navy experienced its first combat in the new year when its Fennec helicopter drove off two pirate skiffs pursuing Indian crude oil tanker MT Abul Kalam Azad in the dangerous pirate-infested Gulf of Aden.
KD Sri Inderasakti commanding officer Kapt Mohamad Adib Abdul Samad received a distress call at 6.30am (local time) from the Indian vessel.
The vessel, with 40 crew members, was heading for the Suez Canal with a full load of crude oil, said RMN Fleet Operations Commander vice-admiral Datuk Ahmad Kamarulzaman Ahmad Badaruddin yesterday.
During the 40-minute combat, seven pirates on board the two skiffs were shooting rapidly at the tanker damaging the bridge, ship quarters and the radar, he said.
To the rescue: The RMN Fennec helicopter gunship (above) drove off two pirate skiffs pursuing the Indian crude oil tanker Abul Kalam Azad (inset) in the dangerous pirate-infested Gulf of Aden.
“It was a tense morning,” he said. “Sri Inderasakti received the SOS call from the Abul Kalam Azad about 15 nautical miles away at the time,” he added.
In rapid response, Kapt Mohamad Adib dispatched the ship-borne Fennec helicopter gunship armed with twin general purpose machine guns and an elite Naval Special Forces (Paskal) airborne sniper.
“The Abul Kalam Azad was
also advised to make its way toward our ship for better protection.
Sri Inderasakti too had turned
and was heading to the scene by then,” Ahmad Kamarulzaman
said.
The Fennec, piloted by Leftenan Muliadi Mohd Noor reached the scene where the two skiffs were chasing the tanker and shooting at it with assault rifles.
A Saudi Arabian navy vessel HMS Al Dammam, believed to be part of the European Union’s Coalition Task Force 150, had also dispatched its own Dauphin helicopter gunship at this point, he added.
Both ships took turns to deter the pirates while giving the oil tanker cover, he said, adding that the skiffs then escaped south-east.
The vessel then headed west, escorted by the Al Dammam.
The encounter was the second time the Sri Inderasakti helped to foil hijack attempts by pirates in the gulf, the first one being the Chinese crane vessel Zhenhua 4 on Dec 18.
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Some good stuff over on Galrahn's blog.

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2009/01/picture-of-day-mv-sirius-star.html

They are pictures from the USN web site of ransom money being delivered to the MV Sirius Star.

High res.
http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/090109-N-5512H-069.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/090109-N-5512H-071.jpg

Just how big the ship is.
http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/090109-N-5512H-217.jpg

The USN site has quite a few pictures of this ship.

I really don't think paying ransoms is a good idea. All it will do is encourage more Somali's to turn to piracy.
 

Firn

Active Member
Looks like the capture of the Sirius Star was the straw which broke the camel's back. Such a heavy presence should curb with a good coordination the activity of the pirates considerably.

Nice photos, btw.
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The Sirius Star story just keeps getting better.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gB7YMEDuCwwY9ncDOtPAkEI4-H2wD95KBNE80

5 Pirates died while fleeing from the Sirius Star and trying to avoid naval patrols.

He said five people died and three people reached shore after swimming for several hours. Daud Nure was not part of the pirate operation but knew those involved.

Abukar Haji, the uncle of one of the dead men, said the deaths were an accident.

"The boat the pirates were traveling in capsized because it was running at high speed because the pirates were afraid of an attack from the warships patrolling around," he said.
I'd be willing to bet that not much money made it back with the survivors.

Again Galrahn's blog has some good insight into this.

http://informationdissemination.blogspot.com/2009/01/karma-in-somalia.html

Considering all the pictures of the money drop on the US Navy website, what are the odds that we were watching the pirates flee the tanker? Pretty good I'd bet.

In other words, the coalition forces were almost certainly watching the pirates and saw the accident occur, then intentionally decided for whatever reason not to offer any assistance. Is it inhumane to let pirates drown? Did we intentionally not help them knowing that we would end up with pirate prisoners? Don't dismiss that last part, the political and legal framework is so confusing it is probably an easy decision for a Naval officer to let pirates drown and die than rescue them and put them in jail.
If true, is it the right thing to do? Probably not (I'd argue that it is since they are pirates and don't deserve any help) but I don't think you'd find too many people who would complain or blame the OIC for doing it.
 
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