While it may be true the Nigerians won't get much life out of a Hamilton cutter, they really haven't been able to get much life out of many new ships either... Given their circumstance, should they buy new at full price or should they buy used for almost nothing?
Philippine Navy Discussion and Updates
- Thread starter gforce
- Start date
I would have thought the funds would be better spent on getting what they have working rather than having another fancy ship tied up at port. Or taking part in international training ops just seem such a waste they should be spending funds on making their fleet sea ready and gain good practices from Western fleets.
Or focusing on riverine and inshore as thats were they have a problem (formerly but conflict remains a possibility), rather than a long rang OPV
I am sure if you looked into the conditions of their ships, you will find the bulk of them are in worst shape than the Hamilton... Most likely it will cost more to fix those ships than it is to accept fully operational used ex-American coast guard ships...
Tentative schedule for decommissioning of USCGC Hamilton WHEC-715 is March 28 at naval station San Diego followed by USCGC Chase WHEC-718 on March 29 at the same place...
SeaWaves Books - SeaWaves News - USCGC Hamilton Decommions this month
PN just partnered with the country's largest telecommunications company PLDT to set up an IP-VPN for its 6 naval groups...
DEFENSE STUDIES: Philippine Navy Set Up Integrated Communication System
SeaWaves Books - SeaWaves News - USCGC Hamilton Decommions this month
PN just partnered with the country's largest telecommunications company PLDT to set up an IP-VPN for its 6 naval groups...
DEFENSE STUDIES: Philippine Navy Set Up Integrated Communication System
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The Hamilton was never meant to be an alternative to the Makasaar. These are two separate projects using totally different funding pools. Funding for the latter isn't expected to be fully allocated till 2012.
Eventually, the Hamilton could eventually be used as an escort for the Makasaar if deployed together.
USCGC Hamilton has been Officially transfered to the PN as of March 28, but what remains unknown is the new BRP name and PF number...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Hamilton_(WHEC-715)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Hamilton_(WHEC-715)
You forgot:Yes, your right...Almost all are WW2 and Vietnam era warships, with the exception of the 3 Ex-HMS Peacock class corvette plus 1 Cyclone class from the US.
-> the seven circa-1980 ex-South Korean PKMs
-> the two Frank Besson LSVs that arrived, brand new, in the late 90s
-> the 22 Halter boats that were manufactured brand new from the mid-80s to the early 90s
-> the brand new LCU that will be unveiled on Navy Day (different from the one that will arrive later this year)
The PN could have bought a much better or even a frigrate used or new from Russia at the same price with missiles already. Or they could have just built one locally plus its brand new. Buying expensive retired navy ship not even armed with missiles is not very smart decision. Something is terribly wrong with the government here. lol.Just a quick clarification that the Hamilton WHEC-715 is the one that was bought by the Philippine Navy and the Chase WHEC-718 was the one sold to the Nigerian Navy...
To StevoJH: That is not the 56 meter Tenix vessel, it is assigned to the PCG and there are no plans to include it in the PN service fleet...The photo which shows on the lower right is actually a PN locally made patrol gunboat...
BRP San Juan SARV-001, PCG 56 meter San Juan(Tenix) Class...
BRP Emilio Aguinaldo PG-140, PN Aguinaldo class Patrol Gunboat...
Assuming it was not built locally, a South Korean shipyard can do the job cheaper than any Western shipyard. For a start, a class of 2 OPV's at around 1,300 tonnes displacement - with a main gun, secondary gun, surface search radar, etc, would be nice and would be a better long term option than surplus hulls. It's all a question of funding and political will.
Question of funding and political will? there is a counter to that and that is the AFP if they are serious about modernization should conduct a media campaign, and expose to the public the poor state of the AFP, making it a national security issue and exposed who of those politicians who keep on cutting, blocking or asking for bribes, in defense contracts. And I bet this will help move the modernization to pace. The AFP should use psychological warfare here. They know all kinds of warfare then they should apply it also in their day to day acitivities. part of psy war is propaganda. And there you go, use the media and you will see how these political crooks start running for cover.
Ok, how much?
I have no idea how much was paid for the former Hamilton. The point I was trying to make was that with a bit more investment, a new OPV or light frigate could be ordered - it will definitely cost more than the Hamilion but will have a longer service span being newly built. In addition to being smaller than the 3,000 tonne Hamiliton [which would lead to cheaper operating costs], a newly built OPV or light frigate will be less matainence intensive and will require a smaller crew. I'm sure the Hamilton is in good shape, but it entered service in 1967 so will probably be harder and expensive to support as the years go by.
All in all, the entry of the former Hamilton into service improves the PN's capability to monitor it's waters.
Agreed over all.
However, one thing that the Hamilton has over a new-build is time-to-deploy. Based on pronouncements from the AFP, this appears to be a key consideration in its selection. The USCG will perform a hot transfer of the ship, so it will not have to go through a re-activation process the way it would have had the Philippines acquired a boat from the bone yard.
Expense will be a function of operating tempo and labor costs. Labor in the Philippines is comparatively cheap. So expenses, for example, related to drydock labor won't be as "painful" as it would be in the US. The prevalence of shipyards throughout the country pretty much ensures that qualified labor is plentiful.
With regard to operating tempo. It is unlikely that the PN will take the Hamilton on missions that reach all the way to the Bering Straits. In fact, the published rationale for its acquisition means that its principal operating area will actually only be a few hundred kilometers off shore. The Hamilton's ability to stay on station, and ability to conduct air operations, will be its principal assets. Its speed with its gas turbines, while beneficial, arguably won't be as important as the economy of its diesels.
That being said, the Philippine Navy is indeed reportedly looking at new-build OPVs. The Hamilton is just a jump-start.
In 2011, there will be five brand new, built-in-the-Philippines, assets that will join the fleet. It'll be an interesting year for the PN.
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not really, I have been reading the logistics for sale by Russians compared to the US or the west, the Russians usually cost less almost half compared to the west and may of their weapons and logistics are even competitive in quality from their AKs to T-72s or T-90s, to sukhois, Migs etc. and this is what Im basing it on the costs, Im sure many defense enthusiasts including yourself know this. I don't need to produce detailed numbers. Why don't you research that yourself if you want accuracy in prices. Lets just say common sense.
not really, I have been reading the logistics for sale by Russians compared to the US or the west, the Russians usually cost less almost half compared to the west and may of their weapons and logistics are even competitive in quality from their AKs to T-72s or T-90s, to sukhois, Migs etc. and this is what Im basing it on the costs, Im sure many defense enthusiasts including yourself know this. I don't need to produce detailed numbers. Why don't you research that yourself if you want accuracy in prices. Lets just say common sense. Better yet if locally designed and built, which will create more jobs, and more taxes and revenues for the government.
Why don't you try adding something more to the discussion instead of saying "this is common sense, I don't need to produce numbers to defend my position, research it yourself". If you've been reading about these costs why not at least provide some links to said reading so other posters can have a look themselves? This adds a lot more to the discussion than simply disagreeing with someone and telling them to "look it up" if they want to know why you disagree.
Not rebuking you, just offering some advice, the above would add more to the conversation and give other posters the chance to evaluate the information you've seen themselves, and add their own thoughts.
Then you'll also be aware that the downside of buying Russian fighters is that their engines, radars, landing gears, etc, have a shorter TBO and MTBF than their western equivalents, which will lead to higher operating costs in the long run. It's not a question of buying something just because it's cheaper and does the same job, factors like operating costs and product support also are important.