Pakistan Navy (PN) News, Updates & Discussions

[BilalK]

http://www.bits.de/public/articles/u-boot-pakistan.htm

Excerpt from above article:

"the order offers besides the chance on future orders, is there the navy of Pakistan indication in accordance with at a long-term partnership interested." That could be. Pakistan would like later further submarines and shows up also interested in German frigates and corvettes of the type MEKO A200 and/or A100. Their manufacturer, Blohm & Voss, belongs likewise to TKMS.

Note the PN has an official requirement for 4+ new corvettes and 4 new frigates. Currently the corvette tender has the Turkish Milgem and DCN Gowind-120 competing, I would not be surprised if MEKO A-100 joins. As for the frigate requirement: I imagine Type-054(A) and MEKO A-200 will be forefront options.

IMO it would be cool to see MEKO A-200 and U214 side-by-side in PN colours.

 

[tphuang]

http://www.bits.de/public/articles/u-boot-pakistan.htm

Excerpt from above article:

Note the PN has an official requirement for 4+ new corvettes and 4 new frigates. Currently the corvette tender has the Turkish Milgem and DCN Gowind-120 competing, I would not be surprised if MEKO A-100 joins. As for the frigate requirement: I imagine Type-054(A) and MEKO A-200 will be forefront options.

IMO it would be cool to see MEKO A-200 and U214 side-by-side in PN colours.

I just don't see how Meko A-200 can match 054A in performance. But then again, there are other requirements.

 

[BilalK]

I just don't see how Meko A-200 can match 054A in performance. But then again, there are other requirements.

Well the South African MEKO A-200 is not as well equipped as the Type-054A, but equipment and armaments depend on the customer. For instance look at the major differences between the Singaporean Navy's Formidable Class, Saudi Arabia's Sawari II and Taiwan's La Fayette.

 

[ahussains]

they already purchasing 4 F22P medium size firgate from china and they will come upto 2012 which i ready ,, are they also buying 4 MORE ...

Nice to hear that ...

 

[BilalK]

they already purchasing 4 F22P medium size firgate from china and they will come upto 2012 which i ready ,, are they also buying 4 MORE ...

Nice to hear that ...

PN is planning to buy 4 more frigates of a larger displacement and better capability than the F-22P. There are also the 6 OHP Class FFG the PN wants, apparently they will not be available for at least another two years from now...

 

[pshamim]

PN is planning to buy 4 more frigates of a larger displacement and better capability than the F-22P. There are also the 6 OHP Class FFG the PN wants, apparently they will not be available for at least another two years from now...

There is talk of new Chinese 54 class in this regard.

 

[BilalK]

There is talk of new Chinese 54 class in this regard.

Likely, but I do not think a tender for the 4 frigate requirement will go out for a while. First the SSK deal needs to be finalized; then a Type-21 replacement - probably OHP-class -needs to be sorted. I expect the SSK and OHP deals will be signed/agreed upon by the end of this year. Then from 2008 to the end of 2010 the PN would likely decide on its 4+ corvette and 4 new-built frigate requirement.

If TKMS wins the SSK deal, then I think it will push MEKO A-200 and A-100 to the PN when the frigate and corvette requirements become top priority.

Potential Type-21 replacements when available - 2009 on wards?:
1) American Oliver Hazard Perry Class FFG
2) German Bremen Class FFG?

Potential options for the corvette requirement:
1) Turkish Milgem
2) French Gowind 120
3) German MEKO A-100

Potential options for the frigate requirement:
1) Chinese Type-054 - or maybe export variant of Type-054A
2) German MEKO A-200
3) French La Fayette variant?

 

[contedicavour]

Likely, but I do not think a tender for the 4 frigate requirement will go out for a while. First the SSK deal needs to be finalized; then a Type-21 replacement - probably OHP-class -needs to be sorted. I expect the SSK and OHP deals will be signed/agreed upon by the end of this year. Then from 2008 to the end of 2010 the PN would likely decide on its 4+ corvette and 4 new-built frigate requirement.

If TKMS wins the SSK deal, then I think it will push MEKO A-200 and A-100 to the PN when the frigate and corvette requirements become top priority.

Potential Type-21 replacements when available - 2009 on wards?:
1) American Oliver Hazard Perry Class FFG
2) German Bremen Class FFG?

Potential options for the corvette requirement:
1) Turkish Milgem
2) French Gowind 120
3) German MEKO A-100

Potential options for the frigate requirement:
1) Chinese Type-054 - or maybe export variant of Type-054A
2) German MEKO A-200
3) French La Fayette variant?

Interesting post. The only bit I would disagree with is the French LA Fayette Variant, since all export efforts are being focused by DCN on FREMMs for frigate sized ships. Besides, a FREMM would be better positioned to win a tender against a Type 054, providing better price/quality ratio.

Another item I would underline though is that America is still financing a significant part of Pakistani military budgets. I would thus be astonished if the Americans didn't try to help out their defence industry by pushing for American LCS (especially if the tender comes out around 2009 when today's LCS problemes are likely to have been solved)

cheers

 

[BilalK]

Interesting post. The only bit I would disagree with is the French LA Fayette Variant, since all export efforts are being focused by DCN on FREMMs for frigate sized ships. Besides, a FREMM would be better positioned to win a tender against a Type 054, providing better price/quality ratio.

Well come to think of it, DCN did display the FREMM at IDEAS 2006, just unsure if it was directed to the PN. Marlin and Gowind 120 were also displayed and were contending in the submarine and corvette requirements, respectively.

 

[Waylander]

As long as I know no Bremen FFGs are available so soon. The F125 project needs some more time before we can begin to phase out some of our F122.

And the problem with the OHPs is that they are no longer FFGs. In the moment their armament consists of the torpedo tubes and the 57mm. More a big patrol vessel than a real FFG. You need to refit them to make them a usefull FFG again.

 

[pshamim]

As long as I know no Bremen FFGs are available so soon. The F125 project needs some more time before we can begin to phase out some of our F122.

And the problem with the OHPs is that they are no longer FFGs. In the moment their armament consists of the torpedo tubes and the 57mm. More a big patrol vessel than a real FFG. You need to refit them to make them a usefull FFG again.

OHPs will come equipped. What they are going to carry is only a guess at this moment. A former comsurf (Commander surface fleet), currently an Admiral was quite excited and that helps me make the above comment. Details are still confidential.
PN will not be using them as fishing trawler. That I can guarantee.

 

[BilalK]

OHPs will come equipped. What they are going to carry is only a guess at this moment. A former comsurf (Commander surface fleet), currently an Admiral was quite excited and that helps me make the above comment. Details are still confidential.
PN will not be using them as fishing trawler. That I can guarantee.

Will the OHPs be provided under the EDA program? If so, then the PN would just have to pay for he refits and upgrades. Upgrades and refits are available for OHP, isn't the Australian Adelaide Class poised to be equipped with an 8-cell Mk.41 system?

 

[Waylander]

Don't get worried!
I Just wanted to say that currently all US OPS are no longer FFGs.
And that the F122 are not available that soon.
Nothing to make you worry.

 

[ahussains]

Likely, but I do not think a tender for the 4 frigate requirement will go out for a while. First the SSK deal needs to be finalized; then a Type-21 replacement - probably OHP-class -needs to be sorted. I expect the SSK and OHP deals will be signed/agreed upon by the end of this year. Then from 2008 to the end of 2010 the PN would likely decide on its 4+ corvette and 4 new-built frigate requirement.

If TKMS wins the SSK deal, then I think it will push MEKO A-200 and A-100 to the PN when the frigate and corvette requirements become top priority.

Potential Type-21 replacements when available - 2009 on wards?:
1) American Oliver Hazard Perry Class FFG
2) German Bremen Class FFG?

Potential options for the corvette requirement:
1) Turkish Milgem
2) French Gowind 120
3) German MEKO A-100

Potential options for the frigate requirement:
1) Chinese Type-054 - or maybe export variant of Type-054A
2) German MEKO A-200
3) French La Fayette variant?

I think technically the French La Fayette variant is superior to the German MEKO A-200 the French have some Stealth Capabilites too in this Firgate and as we know that the DCN/French are the true supplier of the parts and they fullfil there comitments as they done the in Agusta project by technology transfered .. While the Germany so far Pakistan didnt make any big deal and it have some doughts aobut it ?

 

[Waylander]

No big deals? What kind of main hand weapons do you use?

 

[contedicavour]

Well if the OHPs were modernized to carry VLS for ESSM, then ordering Meko 200 would make more sense than FREMM or a Lafayette since Mekos carry ESSMs while neither DCN nor Fincantieri will ever install ESSM on FREMMs.

On the other hand, if the OHPs arrive with RAM instead of ESSMs, then La Fayette and FREMMs stand their chance.

I would still bet on a simplified LCS though, especially if the order is beyond 2009.

cheers

 

[BilalK]

Well if the OHPs were modernized to carry VLS for ESSM, then ordering Meko 200 would make more sense than FREMM or a Lafayette since Mekos carry ESSMs while neither DCN nor Fincantieri will ever install ESSM on FREMMs.

On the other hand, if the OHPs arrive with RAM instead of ESSMs, then La Fayette and FREMMs stand their chance.

I would still bet on a simplified LCS though, especially if the order is beyond 2009.

cheers

My take on PN acquisitions:

SSK deal finalized by end of 2007.
OHP deal finalized by end of 2007, replace Type-21s by 2012?
Corvette deal finalized by end of 2008.
New Frigate deal finalized by end of 2009 or 2010, replace OHPs by 2020?

IMO the TKMS might have the inherent lead in the frigate tender when it comes out - especially if it wins the U214 deal. TKMS seems to give relatively more equipment options to the customer. By 2009-2010 I think the PN may drawn towards the Umkhonto series for surface-vessel SAMs. Personally I think the improvement in the Umkhonto R over IR is impressive and hope that reports about Umkhonto NG are true.

 

[harryriedl]

would buying a cassard or suffern class ships make sence for the as a partical replacement for the type21 [larger and has chance for more groth]

 

[ahussains]

My take on PN acquisitions:

SSK deal finalized by end of 2007.
OHP deal finalized by end of 2007, replace Type-21s by 2012?
Corvette deal finalized by end of 2008.
New Frigate deal finalized by end of 2009 or 2010, replace OHPs by 2020?

IMO the TKMS might have the inherent lead in the frigate tender when it comes out - especially if it wins the U214 deal. TKMS seems to give relatively more equipment options to the customer. By 2009-2010 I think the PN may drawn towards the Umkhonto series for surface-vessel SAMs. Personally I think the improvement in the Umkhonto R over IR is impressive and hope that reports about Umkhonto NG are true.

U214 is technically sperior to Agusta 90 there is no dought about but it also have some seriours propblems "

"
In December 11 2006, StrategyPage reported that the first Type 214 submarine to be delivered from Germany was found to have numerous technical problems [2]. Among the reported problems with the submarine were noise from the propellers, overheating with the fuel cells of the air-independent propulsion system, and excessive rolling in bad weather when travelling on the surface. Many of the reported problems were exaggerated by rumour and press speculation. The Overheating of the fuel cells was cured by adjusting the Fuel Cell heat sensors which had been set too fine, after adjustment the Papanikilos completed a 14 day submerged trial using the fuel cell and her performance exceeded the design parameters. All submarines roll badly on the surface as unlike a surface vessel they have no bilge keels and the report of excessive rolling was not true. It was also reported that she suffered leaks, the only leak during the trials was when half a litre of water entered the hydraulic system through a loose coupling on a hydraulic pipe under the casing. The 2nd boat, Pipinos was officially launched in February of 2007 and is at present going through Harbour Acceptance Trials in Greece."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U214

This is just a private source may be it also have some other major issues to... So far France is a reliable and principle supplier to the PN can we trust Germans ?:unknown

 

[Waylander]

Jup, those problems were very bad PR for HDW.
But it seems that for example the Koreans being happy with their U214s.

In the end germany build more than 60 U209 for 12 countries and they all seem to be happy with it (including ongoing upgrades till now).
I don't see why this should not be the case with the U214.