PAK-FA / T-50: Russian 5th Generation Fighter

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parvas24

New Member
Very cool video. You can see lots of detaljs.

seems to me that PAK- FA looks very much like the F22 ... nice work ..... just paint the both of them the same color then it is hard for a lay person to tell the aircraft from a distance ....
Cockpit , Avionics and weapons systems make the crucial difference ....

the Indian variant should have lethal subsystems and weapons besides the improved Israeli radar equal to F22 that seems to go into it ....
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
seems to me that PAK- FA looks very much like the F22 ... nice work
are you serious? look again. there's quite a bit of difference, especially in fit and finish

..... just paint the both of them the same color then it is hard for a lay person to tell the aircraft from a distance ....
only a lay person who is totally unfamiliar and has never seen either aircraft before - and whats the point of the comparison??


Cockpit , Avionics and weapons systems make the crucial difference ....
training, systems and logistics make the difference

the Indian variant should have lethal subsystems and weapons besides the improved Israeli radar equal to F22 that seems to go into it ....
what israeli radar?

what israeli AESA system for a fighter aircraft?

what lethal subsystems?
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
Is it just me or have the Russians given up their penchant for massive FCR's? The nosecone looks relatively small; the FCR must be smaller than the AN/APG-81. Definitely different to the Flanker series.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
what israeli radar?

what israeli AESA system for a fighter aircraft?
The only Israeli radar I heard the Indians were looking at (apart from EL/M-2032) was EL/M-2052 for the LCA down the track. But I doubt that system would be anywhere near as capable as the current AN/APG-77, or even the Russians AESA that comes with the car.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
wow! look at those movable lerx!
from all the previous photos and videos, i was still unsure just exactly which axis they would rotate, and just how far.
Yeah they stood out to me as well, must help plenty at high AoA. Anyone think the vertical stabilisers were effecting stability in the turns (heard someone else mention it), they are mighty small.
 
Yeah they stood out to me as well, must help plenty at high AoA. Anyone think the vertical stabilisers were effecting stability in the turns (heard someone else mention it), they are mighty small.
couldn't you almost consider them canards that also just function as chines / a bit more blended into the wing during normal operation (frontal aspect)? or is it different because they will have an effect on airflow into the inlets.

do normal eurocanards or etc use their canards in any way to direct airflow into the turbine inlets?
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Is it just me or have the Russians given up their penchant for massive FCR's? The nosecone looks relatively small; the FCR must be smaller than the AN/APG-81. Definitely different to the Flanker series.
The whole aircraft is small, to me. At least compared to the Flanker series. There is a shot of it next to an SU-27 floating around the net and it appears to my eye to be considerably smaller than the SU-27 series. The stories about it's enormous internal fuel, weapon loads and sensor systems, seem just that to me. Stories, because on appearance alone, the airframe is considerably smaller than the SU-27.

If the FCR is a much smaller array than the current series, than this might indeed, indicate that the Russians are getting their act together in relation to fighter based radar systems.

It also poses significant question marks in relation to their current systems, despite the championing for them in some areas, IMHO...

:D
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
The whole aircraft is small, to me. At least compared to the Flanker series. There is a shot of it next to an SU-27 floating around the net and it appears to my eye to be considerably smaller than the SU-27 series. The stories about it's enormous internal fuel, weapon loads and sensor systems, seem just that to me. Stories, because on appearance alone, the airframe is considerably smaller than the SU-27.

If the FCR is a much smaller array than the current series, than this might indeed, indicate that the Russians are getting their act together in relation to fighter based radar systems.

It also poses significant question marks in relation to their current systems, despite the championing for them in some areas, IMHO...

:D
I'll try to find a good photo with them next to each other so we can address this question with a little more accuracy.
 
Yeah they stood out to me as well, must help plenty at high AoA. Anyone think the vertical stabilisers were effecting stability in the turns (heard someone else mention it), they are mighty small.
(high-res photo - click link)
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4222/pakfafrontxfh1dr.jpg

so if the portion in red is the dynamic lerx (as clarified by the latest youtube video), what does the small forward strip (outlined in blue) represent? what could be its function?

and there seems to be a large gap between the lerx and the nose...
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
couldn't you almost consider them canards that also just function as chines / a bit more blended into the wing during normal operation (frontal aspect)? or is it different because they will have an effect on airflow into the inlets.

do normal eurocanards or etc use their canards in any way to direct airflow into the turbine inlets?
Don’t quote me on this but I don’t think so, they probably wouldn't have too much effect on pitch performance comparable to a proper canard. I'd wager the increased vortex generation may compensate for the extended wing sweep at high AoA, but I'm no expert on aerodynamics.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
The whole aircraft is small, to me. At least compared to the Flanker series. There is a shot of it next to an SU-27 floating around the net and it appears to my eye to be considerably smaller than the SU-27 series. The stories about it's enormous internal fuel, weapon loads and sensor systems, seem just that to me. Stories, because on appearance alone, the airframe is considerably smaller than the SU-27.
The wing area looks huge but the internal volume must be small. Just by eyeball I'd wager the F-35A's internal volume is significantly greater. For me that says two things; the PAK-FA should run rings around the F-35A in terms of kinematics but in terms of range, persistence and internal payload the F-35A should be significantly superior. Again that’s only by eyeball.

If the FCR is a much smaller array than the current series, than this might indeed, indicate that the Russians are getting their act together in relation to fighter based radar systems.

It also poses significant question marks in relation to their current systems, despite the championing for them in some areas, IMHO...

:D
Indeed, it seems massive power output was driven by necessity rather the superiority of that design paradigm.
 
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Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Anyone else notice that in this photo the engine face is clearly visible??? i.e. No S shaped intakes. I wonder what that does for frontal RCS?
Indeed, it's rather prominent isn't it... is this the sort of thing that is likely to be changed in future iterations of the design or is it an inherent feature of the airframe? I have no idea about such things so I'd be interested to hear from someone with more knowledge.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
Indeed, it's rather prominent isn't it... is this the sort of thing that is likely to be changed in future iterations of the design or is it an inherent feature of the airframe? I have no idea about such things so I'd be interested to hear from someone with more knowledge.
Again coming back to the apparent small internal volume I’m not sure there is room to install proper S shaped intakes. They are an integral part of US 5th gen designs. Still I have no idea what sort of actual effect that would have on frontal RCS.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
On an unrelated and :eek:fftopic note how funny is this video.

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hjkDlzOddk[/nomedia]


I know its basically just outlining capabilities but it still made me laugh. Looks like they used Ace Combat 6 software.
 

HKSDU

New Member
Underside is still being worked on, namely the weapons bay. Either way I have doubts about how you go about determining whether an aircraft looks less stealthy.. :rolleyes:
Think what he means is the shape compromise the airframe. Since stealth is shape and materials, having potruding shapes on underbelly compromises the signature. You can easly see that normal civilian transports aren't stealthy by shape, does that mean we need to technically analyze if its stealthy or not the transporter. The underbelly AT THE MOMENT isn't stealthy the overall airframe is more or less a RCS reduce 4th generation airframe. Own opinion
 
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