PAF to get ERIEYE/AEW/AWACS from Sweden

adsH

New Member
srirangan said:
Quoting the first line of the article
LAHORE: Through a deal thought to cost around Rs 156.6 billion, the Pakistan Airforce (PAF) is trying to induct 60 state-of-the-art jetfighters
The title of this thread is misleading, it shd be edited.
Sri how is misleading !!
You induct a particular type of AC by going through a sequence of processes and then negotiations, and then you come up to a final runner up and then you sign the contract, since the contract cannot be Produced in a day and would take some time i would say One month is an adequate time allowance for any contract to be produced.
 

fieldmarshal

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  • #22
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

The title of this piece is PAF trying to induct 60 Gripen jets into fleet so where is it misleadin u
 

adsH

New Member
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

fieldmarshal said:
gfoo12 if u read the piece that i ave posted relatin to the mirages, u will see that it says that most of these mirages wil be used for spares meanin they will be canabalised,so i dont know where u got this stop gap idea.
secondly the number of f-16s will be braught back to its orignal number with mlu upgrades.
hey Feildmarshal, some of the libyan mirages are going to go through the ROSE 3 Update i think it was stated on the AFM June edition. But yes most of them are for cannibalization and they are gap filler for the JF-17 since JF-17 would be a newer platform incorporating the Advance Avionic systems, similar to the ones of the ROSE 3 configuration.
 

fieldmarshal

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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

i agree with u adsh that they are a stop gap for jf-17, but not a stop gap for the grippen as gfoo12 sujested n yes most of em will be canabalised.
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

AfAIK I know Sweden only has JAS -39 A/B Model Gripen's in service at present. The C/D model has been developed, but I'm fairly certain it is not yet in service. IF PAF were to get some Gripen's quickly they would likely be the older less capable A/B version, (limited mainly to air to air roles) and maybe used for pilot training, doctrinal development etc.The PAF would no doubt be wanting the fully multi-mission capable C/D version and these will take quite a while to acquire as their development isn't even finished yet...
 

fieldmarshal

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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

aussie digger the piece says that the planes provided within 6 months of the agreement is according to the agresive marketin tech by saab, that would mean that they have some aircraft in store as the swedish airforce will not iet its planes be given to any 1 else.
the planes being baught by PAF will be the latest varient with the possibility of further up grades
 

srirangan

Banned Member
The title is misleading because "to" implies that some deal has come thru. If it read "plans to" it would be more accurate. Cheers!
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

Fieldmarshall, I'm afraid you are incorrect once more. Unlike you my statements are not made without qualification. The Czech Republic and Hungary are receiving JAS-39 Gripen's under lease from Sweden. These aircraft are A/B models that are former Swedish Air Force aircraft that have been withdrawn from Swedish service, as they are surplus to requirements. (ie: Sweden is withdrawing a number of A model Gripens from service and acquiring additional C models). A further check will show that South Africa is also acquiring 28 new build Gripen's which it ordered in 1999. Guess when these are being delivered? Deliveries start in 2006!!! ( www.airtoaircombat.com ) South Africa while not quite as desperate as Pakistan for new fighters, has a fairly urgent requirement for new fighters due to it's current ageing aircraft fleet, and new fighter acquisitions within it's region (ie: Angola recently acquired new MiG fighters etc). THIS is why PAF will not have new build Gripen's in service before 2008-2010, SAAB, simply couldn't build them quicker than that. PAF, MAY introduce limited numbers of Gripen's before them as I've already stated, but they won't be new build, and I doubt they'll get an upgraded version within the time frame you've mentioned.
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

In addition to this Hungary has opted for the upgraded "Batch 3" or JAS-39C/D version of the Gripen. These aircraft were ordered in 2001, and are to be JAS-39A/B variants upgraded to the new Batch 3 standard. These are to be delivered in 2006. ( www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ ). As I hope you are beginning to see, funding, need etc, is irrelevant. It simply takes a long time to build capability, and NOTHING much can be done to expedite this.
 

fieldmarshal

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  • #32
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

well at the moment its all speculation, let the deal go down n than well argue bout it till dan aussie man chill.
n wt the south african, the czechs tne hungarians are doin does not concer n us, wt concerns us is simply us. So let it all go down on paper n than well talk bout it.

ps: they will be the latest varients, u can bet ur bottom dollar on dat
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

fieldmarshal said:
u tell him adsh. u need to go n see things ur self. which i daubt u will, instead of makin hypathatical statements. n leedin others on.
No disrespect intended, but do you actually have any idea of what I do for work?? ;)
 

fieldmarshal

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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

look bud wt u do is of no consiquence to me same as wt i do or have done before. but i wish u success in wt ever u do :)
 

gf0012-aust

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Staff member
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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

adsH said:
Yeah lol !! Internet Experience!! :lol

GF i just wanted to add couple of stuff here. First Off i think Saab is willing to sell the tech, there is no doubt about that, but i think the only hindrance is the Clearance for the Volvo Power-plant that has a basic American build. The Power-plant can be removed and EJ2000 can be installed, and that might be the case here, the Price per unit seems a little More expensive. And your forgetting the fact here you claim the base models may be offered to PAF!! i would eat my hat and kick my self on the back side the day that would ever to happen, French are willing to sell a perfectly high-tech AC Mirage 2005 mk2. Mirage 2005 mk2 are almost the same price per unit and they are available to PAF I see Mirages as a competitor, DONâ€T YOU!! GF. PAF isn't begging here they are paying hard cash something, i think around 47 million a piece, Somthing tells me oh wait it's my common sense!!! they wouldn't take throw aways!!.

Its not about Technology funnelling through to the Chinese, but its more about politics i would think. But i think the Swedes have learnt something, no matter how much you control your self there are always others who would exploit your share of the market, self restraint is sign of arrogance and ignorance and quiet frankly Stupidity.

I see your remarks about Tech funnelling through to Third parties as very well thought through and very well placed. But you fail to see one point and that is Pakistan is not just any third world, Low life, down grade, Poor, corrupt underdeveloped trash land. The people that live there have Brains and they happen to be resourceful people. They may not have the Tech advantage now, and they may not have an advantage tomorrow or even the day after tomorrow, but there will come a time, A day when all these Acquisitions would become unnecessary (self Sufficiency). Pakistan has its own indigenous Project, as i said they may not be comparable to the European versions but they will one day have the bite. so you see, the whole point of this pointless mouth babble here is that people treat Technology as the Crown of a kingdom and they disregard the fact that the Tech would change and would continue to change very quickly, the winner are the People who hold on in the game and survive making brilliant strives to reach there goal. People change, Leaders change and so does technology!!

And GF please do-not try and point out my patriotism for Pakistan or any-other nation. i would say, infact i have Said the same things about India's indigenous developments , members here have hopefully witnessed that!!, in-fact i would say the same about any-other nation that works hard to keep up!!!!
adsH, again you fail to recognise that comments made are a legacy of analysis and experience in other projects. I have the advantage in this sense in not making decisions based on patriotism (which is not a negative at all, for some ungodly reason people in here get overexcited with patriotism and let logic fly out the window). There is no question on my part of Pakistans capacity to score a deal - but some reality needs to be injected into the discussion about cause and effect. The F-16 to China being a very very pertinent example of what can influence an outcome. btw, the Volvo engine is a US engine made under licence. It's not a volvo engine per se. Please read my responses with passion turned off, I have not suggested that PAF will get a baseline Grip, I have outlined difficulties in obtaining relevant models due to operational and logistical imperatives.

I have no idea where you are getting the notion that I am questioning your arguments based on your patriotism - your patriotism isn't in question.

I'm not irritated at you, but I am getting fed up with people not reading the responses properly, taking it personally and thus letting logic fly out the window on the wings of patriotism. All it does is demonstrate that they have not read closely the responses made. You cannot reason with such people as they are already unhinged at what they think you said rather than what was said. (Two vastly different things)

These topics are ones constructed on opinion and information. The sooner that people can separate the difference and engage in meaningful debate then the better the conversations will be. Otherwise all this does is turn into a mutual gratification society where reality and history is ignored and optimism rules at the expense of logic.

PAF may well get the Grips - the issue as has been discussed infinitum is when. That is completely outside the control of Pakistan and is subject to the decision making outcome of existing customers.

Again, for all and sundry - READ THE RESPONSES before going off and misinterpreting things or reading what you want into it.
 

Londo Molari

New Member
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

This would be amazing news, if only it was true.

First what is the date of this article? Is it older than the other article posted which stated that Sweden DENIES selling Pakistan any military equipment?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

Londo Molari said:
This would be amazing news, if only it was true.

First what is the date of this article? Is it older than the other article posted which stated that Sweden DENIES selling Pakistan any military equipment?
No idea, all I know is that Musharaff wouldn't go to sweden just to eat the local food. ;) He's obviously hoping to walk away with something deliverable, that could be Grips, Eyries or 500 Carl Gustavs. ;)
 

adsH

New Member
Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

gf0012-aust said:
adsH, again you fail to recognise that comments made are a legacy of analysis and experience in other projects. I have the advantage in this sense in not making decisions based on patriotism (which is not a negative at all, for some ungodly reason people in here get overexcited with patriotism and let logic fly out the window). There is no question on my part of Pakistans capacity to score a deal - but some reality needs to be injected into the discussion about cause and effect. The F-16 to China being a very very pertinent example of what can influence an outcome. btw, the Volvo engine is a US engine made under licence. It's not a volvo engine per se. Please read my responses with passion turned off, I have not suggested that PAF will get a baseline Grip, I have outlined difficulties in obtaining relevant models due to operational and logistical imperatives.

I have no idea where you are getting the notion that I am questioning your arguments based on your patriotism - your patriotism isn't in question.

I'm not irritated at you, but I am getting fed up with people not reading the responses properly, taking it personally and thus letting logic fly out the window on the wings of patriotism. All it does is demonstrate that they have not read closely the responses made. You cannot reason with such people as they are already unhinged at what they think you said rather than what was said. (Two vastly different things)

These topics are ones constructed on opinion and information. The sooner that people can separate the difference and engage in meaningful debate then the better the conversations will be. Otherwise all this does is turn into a mutual gratification society where reality and history is ignored and optimism rules at the expense of logic.

PAF may well get the Grips - the issue as has been discussed infinitum is when. That is completely outside the control of Pakistan and is subject to the decision making outcome of existing customers.

Again, for all and sundry - READ THE RESPONSES before going off and misinterpreting things or reading what you want into it.
GF i appologise if i have irritated you or said something irrelevant, i never clainmed the leased Grips would be C/D models, i know they are going to be,somt of the remaining 40 Swedish Stored grippenen the A/B models. and i did say the Volvo engine is of an basic american build, GE in origin thats what i had meant.

I was not arguing on the schedule OF AC and when they would-be delivered, but i was only referring to your remarks that you made about PAF only being given base line Models, and all i wanted to point out was that PAF has other options like deasault Mirage 2005 mk2. so grippens would have to come with the Full kit intact or PAF would never spend there cash on Gripens and they would Swerve and go for the Mirage 2005 mk2.

I never questioed the time table or the schedule of deliveries as i know it would take time. and i never underestimated your credibility that you have gained through Experience. I once again apologize for my remarks.
 

webmaster

Troll Hunter
Staff member
I think we need a thread on how is a fighter jet inducted into an airforce(a-z) before we can actually talk about inducting one. :roll
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Re: PAF to induct 60 Gripen jets + awacs into fleet

South African, Hungarian and Czech purchases of this aircraft have a lot to do with any PAF purchase, when it comes to delivery of the product. Do you think that SAAB would simply stop these customers productions and immediately commence PAF production based on Pakistan's strategic circumstances? If you actually believe this then I feel sorry for you. If PAF acquires the latest version my friend, than the in-service date will be delayed even further. That's all I'll say for the moment, The Pakistani president is in Sweden at present and we'll see if a contract is even signed, all this is merely speculation at this stage as you correctly point out.
 
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