FoxtrotRomeo999
Active Member
Simon Ewing-Jarvie has an interesting website New Zealand's National Security. Not sure if he is considered a serious contributor to NZ Defence issues.
Well, if you can ensure you don't refer to every Naval vessel as being a frigate, nor every AirForce aircraft as either a Spitfire or a Hercules, then you'll be standing head & shoulders above the majority of NZ's media when it comes to Defence . The most obvious outcomes are often hard to quantify or prove... but here's a few salient points I think you'll find most on here can agree with.What are the biggest issues? What should I be looking for? And how does the funding playing out in real world examples? (I need to show readers why having an underfunded military is a problem for them!) And how aware is the government of these issues?
Glad you find my site interesting. As to being a 'serious contributor', I guess that all depends on your viewpoint. Certainly, 66k views by 21k unique visitors on unclas.com plus thousands of listeners on the 'Indefensible New Zealand' podcast points to it being more than a hobby without (because I can't) listing my contract research clients in the national security space.Simon Ewing-Jarvie has an interesting website New Zealand's National Security. Not sure if he is considered a serious contributor to NZ Defence issues.
No offence taken, mate. Just filling in the blanks for those who are new here. And your post has really pumped my blog stats tonight so cheers!Simon, sorry. Wasn't meaning to undermine your credentials, but being one of your foreign audience, I really have no feel for how much your fellow Kiwis agree with your point of view. Some of your scenarios would IMHO would be interesting (in a good way!) interspersed to bring out the purpose of Defence (national survival and all that).
Have a great day, Foxtrot
Mr C, I totally agree with what you have written above, What the government left out from the above list is the simple task which every defence force is in existence has and that is to defend the sovereignty of their country and in our case of NZ and the freedom of our people. That is the main task of any defence force and has been completely missing as a task in the last 30 odd years. Defence is combat capable, flexible and ready;
Defence personnel are highly trained professionals;
Defence has the resources to meet the Government’s operational and strategic priorities;
Defence operates in a way that maintains public trust and confidence;
Defence embodies and promotes New Zealand’s values; and
Defence is a credible and trusted international partner.
I think there is a little more to it than that... and Scott Morrison's visit Months before ... where he says the typical fluffy dogs BS that "there are some far from here who would seek to divide us, but they will not succeed" He already knew what AUKUS was coming and the fall out and even how it may put a strain on Trans-Tasman relations... and that the divide may seem to be getting bigger...@MrConservative I thought Adern's only reply to the RANs SSN decision summed her Governments attitude up very well, instead of such a massive Australian Defence policy change sending red flags all she done was say "well they won't be welcome in NZ waters"
Climate change will be a problem for all militaries. The biggest problem for America’s military is the national debt and political polarization so severe it might result in civil unrest or worst case scenario, outright civil war.Mr C, I totally agree with what you have written above, What the government left out from the above list is the simple task which every defence force is in existence has and that is to defend the sovereignty of their country and in our case of NZ and the freedom of our people. That is the main task of any defence force and has been completely missing as a task in the last 30 odd years.
Lucy, to achieve this (Defend NZ) is relatively simple in our case as we are an island surrounded by at least 2000km of water' This important as it places strike aircraft outside of their combat radius to us unless they are on an Aircraft Carrier and potential threats do not have them in large numbers.
1. we need to know what is going on in our area, in the air, on the water and under it. This requires good surveillance and a high level of intelligence gathering. Four P8's is not going to achieve this and does not provide us knowledge of what is happening in the air and there is going to be too few of them.
2. We need to be able to control or neutralize any threat that enters our area. Again due to our location this is simplified due to the distances involved and the likelihood that any threat to us would involve a simultaneous threat to Australia. So any threat to us would be diluted. this is easiest to achieve with air power, including both modern weapons for anti air and sea. The force required would not be dissimilar in size to the strike wing of the early 1990's of about 40 aircraft including modern combat capable advanced trainers.
3.The navy require additional assets to keep our lines of communication open and the army additional heavier weapons to exist on a modern battle field.
All our forces are very deficient in numbers in terms of manpower and equipment to defend us as if a threat arose help may be some time away. A modern well armed and balanced force would provide a significant deterrent to aggression against us and this what we need as we don't want to have to fight anyone if this can be avoided.
The world strategic situation is deteriorating for various reasons including the combined pressures of global warming and unrestrained population growth. I suggest you read this summary of a US army report on the subject.
U.S. Military Could Collapse Within 20 Years Due to Climate Change, Report Commissioned By Pentagon Says - VICE
If we wait until we see a threat, we will be at least a decade to late and maybe more to achieve a meaningful improvement to our situation.
Sorry mate. I was attempting to channel my inner Allo Allo Lieutenant Hubert Gruber and his little tank "Hubert". It was a rather nice rant after a long week. At least I didn't attempt senior service, nautical disaster, by saying Boat or HM War Canoe. On the one side, we lost ACF but on the plus side, we get 105 LAVs. Cool, except that is hardly a priority for a maritime nation and, Army was playing the man instead of the ball. An inglorious period of our history. IMHO!Moderator edit. For gawds sake @Gooey get the terminology right. You have been on here long enough to know that. The Army doesn't have "little tanks"; they have Light Armoured Vehicles. Big difference. Lucy is a professional so have the decency to treat her as such.
Ngatimozart.
Okay this is I'm sure a dumb question. But any chance you could tell me what sort of "heavier weapons" we need and what we need for a modern battlefield? And what sort of assets do the navy need to keep comms open? Do you mean in terms of making sure the Southern Cross cable isn't cut and satellites wiped out or so that our navy can continue to operate with ally ships? THANKSMr C, I totally agree with what you have written above, What the government left out from the above list is the simple task which every defence force is in existence has and that is to defend the sovereignty of their country and in our case of NZ and the freedom of our people. That is the main task of any defence force and has been completely missing as a task in the last 30 odd years.
Lucy, to achieve this (Defend NZ) is relatively simple in our case as we are an island surrounded by at least 2000km of water' This important as it places strike aircraft outside of their combat radius to us unless they are on an Aircraft Carrier and potential threats do not have them in large numbers.
1. we need to know what is going on in our area, in the air, on the water and under it. This requires good surveillance and a high level of intelligence gathering. Four P8's is not going to achieve this and does not provide us knowledge of what is happening in the air and there is going to be too few of them.
2. We need to be able to control or neutralize any threat that enters our area. Again due to our location this is simplified due to the distances involved and the likelihood that any threat to us would involve a simultaneous threat to Australia. So any threat to us would be diluted. this is easiest to achieve with air power, including both modern weapons for anti air and sea. The force required would not be dissimilar in size to the strike wing of the early 1990's of about 40 aircraft including modern combat capable advanced trainers.
3.The navy require additional assets to keep our lines of communication open and the army additional heavier weapons to exist on a modern battle field.
All our forces are very deficient in numbers in terms of manpower and equipment to defend us as if a threat arose help may be some time away. A modern well armed and balanced force would provide a significant deterrent to aggression against us and this what we need as we don't want to have to fight anyone if this can be avoided.
The world strategic situation is deteriorating for various reasons including the combined pressures of global warming and unrestrained population growth. I suggest you read this summary of a US army report on the subject.
U.S. Military Could Collapse Within 20 Years Due to Climate Change, Report Commissioned By Pentagon Says - VICE
If we wait until we see a threat, we will be at least a decade to late and maybe more to achieve a meaningful improvement to our situation.
Thanks Lucas. Any chance you could tell me a little more about what the helicopters couldn't do? These real world examples are excellent! Also I'm very issued in the problems caused when NZ tries to respond to two things at the same time.The issue is not just a matter of funding and size, but also under utilization of existing assets capabilities or acquiring in sufficient capability. For example NZ has purchased the P8A but did not acquire any stand off weapons (i.e. anti ship missiles) to allow for engagement of naval forces in the South Pacific or Tasman Sea should the need arise (effectively the P8 would have to fly over them and drop bombs - just like in WWII). Like wise the LH-109 and even the T-6 could provide a very limited CAS and enhanced training capability for the army, but we have not acquired the necessary equipment or systems. The trusty 14 Iroquois helicopters were replaced with 8 operational NH-90. While the NH-90 can achieve and lift more, the Kaikoura earthquake highlighted in my view the serious short comings in the rotary lift capability of the RNZAF.
There is also a failure to understand at a political level that the nature and way wars are being fought has change. The army has only a very limited air defence (i.e. 12.7mm and 25mm effectively) capability at present. Yet we are seeing more drones being used as weapons not just by nation states (2020 Nagorno-Karabakh conflict) but also non state players. Hezbollah possesses a range of weapons systems (anti ship missiles, air defence etc) while rebels in Yemen have used short range ballistic missiles (i.e. Burkan-2) . These non state players often act as de-factos for state players. Overseas trends are towards re-requipping forces with low level air defence systems, however in NZ we placed the Mistral Low Level Air Defence system into storage after less than 10 years in service, for various reasons.
If I were to summarize where defence stands in terms of capability and where the core issues lay:
- The army lacks the capability to operate within a modern medium - high intensity conflict (the actual type of conflict may vary) zone due to a lack of local air defence, a limited anti-armour capability and a lack of an active self defence system on the LAV (i.e. Trophy) to provide self defence from guided weapons. These are just some examples. I would also note the vulnerability of fixed artillery such as NZ currently operates based on observations of the Ukrainian conflict, that suggest mobile artillery is the future.
- The navy lacks sufficient number of ships provide sufficient capability to respond to short notice events (i.e. East Timor) without compromising other operations. Its interesting that the Irish government considers 8 ships to be the absolute minimum for the enforcement of their EEZ, while entire RNZN consists of 10 ships (once and if the SOPV comes online) for a significantly larger area and greater responsibilities. While the strategic environment for Ireland is different it does highlight how sea blind New Zealand really is to its geographic position and the vulnerability of its trade routes.
- The airforce lacks airframes (helicopters and others to name a few) and what airframes it does has are not used to the fullest of their capability. This impacted on the ability to deploy to Afghanistan.
- The current size of the NZDF and limited air transport means that the regular force would not be able to respond effectively in a sustained way to a major disaster arising say from the Southern Fault Line or Wellington Fault knocking out a 7.8 quake.
- We won't even get into the debate about an air combat capability, because that's been discussed to death - but the disbandment of the Air Combat Force really highlights the short sighted strategic thinking in Wellington political and Treasury circles.
- Elements in Wellington fail to understand the fact there is no surplus equipment that we can acquire to shore up our defences like there use to be in the 1960's, and what equipment is available takes time to regenerate and requires a significant investment in training, that still doesn't compensate for institutional knowledge and experience.
Ah I see, then I stand corrected. In that context the point is entirely appropriate and it does appeal to my sense of humour. My apologies.Sorry mate. I was attempting to channel my inner Allo Allo Lieutenant Hubert Gruber and his little tank "Hubert". It was a rather nice rant after a long week. At least I didn't attempt senior service, nautical disaster, by saying Boat or HM War Canoe. On the one side, we lost ACF but on the plus side, we get 105 LAVs. Cool, except that is hardly a priority for a maritime nation and, Army was playing the man instead of the ball. An inglorious period of our history. IMHO!
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@LucyCraymer, you seem to misunderstand about the RNZN's role in keeping New Zealand's "lines of communication" open. This is not referring to an undersea cable, or even satellite constellations, but rather to New Zealand's Sea Lines of Communication (in this context of the acronym SLOC). Wikipedia (not a favoured source here on the forum) does have a reasonably decent explanation of the term here, as well as some examples from history.Okay this is I'm sure a dumb question. But any chance you could tell me what sort of "heavier weapons" we need and what we need for a modern battlefield? And what sort of assets do the navy need to keep comms open? Do you mean in terms of making sure the Southern Cross cable isn't cut and satellites wiped out or so that our navy can continue to operate with ally ships? THANKS
No question is dumb when you are wanting to learn.Okay this is I'm sure a dumb question. But any chance you could tell me what sort of "heavier weapons" we need and what we need for a modern battlefield? And what sort of assets do the navy need to keep comms open? Do you mean in terms of making sure the Southern Cross cable isn't cut and satellites wiped out or so that our navy can continue to operate with ally ships? THANKS
My thoughts on this is that the only real dumb question is the one you fail to ask and thanks Ngati for answering the questions so well, save's me.No question is dumb when you are wanting to learn.
Lucy I will have a go in the meantime to answer your question with respect to the lack of helicopters and the lack of an ability to do more than one thing at a time.Thanks Lucas. Any chance you could tell me a little more about what the helicopters couldn't do? These real world examples are excellent! Also I'm very issued in the problems caused when NZ tries to respond to two things at the same time.