John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Haven’t been to Halifax in 11 months and didn’t really notice an increased Chinese presence probably because the presence in Toronto and Vancouver is so much greater.
NZDF General discussion thread
- Thread starter NZLAV
- Start date
The thing about Chinese diaspora into the English speaking countries of the Pacific Rim is the different generational and social-geographical backgrounds. They are certainly not monolithic. There are the old multi-generational Chinese families that have been around since the earlier decades of the colonies through into the 1950's, then there is the influx of 1980's-1990's ex Hong Kong migrants and Taiwanese, now of course the new mainlanders. They really do not have that much to do with each other though the first 2 groups are becoming more connected and fairly suspicious of the newer arrivals.
Very, very interesting... good post, the transcript makes good reading, pity mainstream media are unlikely to run with the story. I always suspected NZ not being included in steel & aluminium tariff exemptions was likely linked to our mediocre security outlook and now he have proof of high-level US officials clearly suggesting they don't feel we can be trusted with 5-eyes intelligence while at the same time raising the topic of those tariff exemptions... duh, 1 + 1 = 2 New Zealand!
This does of course explain the unexpected boost to NZ's foreign affairs budget recently - clearly the result of US pressure. Pity some of it didn't go toward the Defence aspect of foreign affairs policy.
I'm increasingly getting the feeling we (NZ) really are just a little kid bringing his cheap plastic toys into the sandpit and being allowed to play with the older boys and their nice die-cast metal toys! It makes one think that if we don;t go for the P8 it could tip the scales... although that may be a simplistic thought on my part.
I think a perfect example is when Andrew Little waffled about our strong security relationship with the US... what he failed to say is largely one-way traffic, and that we are becoming increasingly irrelevant. I know we all say the current Govt really don't get it but I suspect that they do clearly understand US concerns but don't want this to become a public debate ... fat chance of the latter in NZ with our lassez-faire attitude to such things!
At least the transcript does suggest the US won't rush into knee-capping us.
...sorry, couldn't avoid some politics in this subject!
NZDF chief flew top brass around NZ on costly helicopter rides
Another beatup article from those I detest the most. The useless ignorant NZ media. They are everything which is wrong with this country - most have the mental age of a 12 year old. Politicians are higher up the integrity totem pole.
Another beatup article from those I detest the most. The useless ignorant NZ media. They are everything which is wrong with this country - most have the mental age of a 12 year old. Politicians are higher up the integrity totem pole.
Read the comments section. You will find that (as thick and uninformed as the media seem) they are still smarter by far than a great many of the people responding to the article. Fair dinkum, it makes me wonder what the public think defence forces do between wars. Apparently, sit on their backsides waiting for a cost benefit analysis to justify the next new paper clip.
oldsig
Apparently the new govts inquiry into the $20 billion defence investment, is due next month. We await with much interest, but are not holding our breath.
Hundreds of Kiwi troops attend War Games in the Pacific Islands
Hundreds of Kiwi troops attend War Games in the Pacific Islands
Yep you get the loony lefties having their ill-informed rant. Sometimes I wonder if they still read their dog eared copy of Mao's little read book five times a day.
Very, very interesting... good post, the transcript makes good reading, pity mainstream media are unlikely to run with the story. I always suspected NZ not being included in steel & aluminium tariff exemptions was likely linked to our mediocre security outlook and now he have proof of high-level US officials clearly suggesting they don't feel we can be trusted with 5-eyes intelligence while at the same time raising the topic of those tariff exemptions... duh, 1 + 1 = 2 New Zealand!
This does of course explain the unexpected boost to NZ's foreign affairs budget recently - clearly the result of US pressure. Pity some of it didn't go toward the Defence aspect of foreign affairs policy.
I'm increasingly getting the feeling we (NZ) really are just a little kid bringing his cheap plastic toys into the sandpit and being allowed to play with the older boys and their nice die-cast metal toys! It makes one think that if we don;t go for the P8 it could tip the scales... although that may be a simplistic thought on my part.
I think a perfect example is when Andrew Little waffled about our strong security relationship with the US... what he failed to say is largely one-way traffic, and that we are becoming increasingly irrelevant. I know we all say the current Govt really don't get it but I suspect that they do clearly understand US concerns but don't want this to become a public debate ... fat chance of the latter in NZ with our lassez-faire attitude to such things!
At least the transcript does suggest the US won't rush into knee-capping us.
...sorry, couldn't avoid some politics in this subject!
Ok so it did get into mainstream... China's communists fund Jacinda Ardern's Labour Party: What the United States Congress was told
Pity however the clear link in the transcript linking the lack of Steel & Aluminium tariff exemption to this discussion... would've made a clear argument about cause & effect - ie: how our defence relationships impact trade relationships...a link the average NZer doesn't seem to grasp.
To be honest I don't know what's worse, the Labour Party being funded by the Chinese or Bill English's screw-up with the Chinese MP.
The Bill incident is probably even more serious, it also makes me wonder why we still allow people born outside NZ or with dual citizenship to become members of our parliament?
Such is the deeply ingrained Silo mentality existing in NZ between Trade and Defence that even Mr Fisher the author failed to get that one.
The classic example of this failure was in our now distant past. The F-16 deal cancellation cost NZ if the potential figures circulated at the time were to be achieved $22 Billion in extra trade over 10 years if NZ had sign with the US an FTA, which the US was negotiating concurrently with Australia, Singapore and Chile.
Comapre the Chilean outcome. Chile like NZ was very lukewarm in support of the Iraqi War but it did one thing to impress the US Government in the meantime. On 27th December 2000 it ordered ten F-16's with the LOA signed in December 2002. That got Chile over the line with an FTA by September 2003.
We destroyed our opportunity for increased wealth and jobs for our citizens over a petulant ideological stance on not acquiring 28 F-16's that were only going to cost us all up USD$254m ($51m p.a) over the first 5 years based on 52c in the dollar FFX rate (when the actual average rate was over 60c meaning we would have saved around 16% to our strengthening currency over that time) but we could have generated billions in additional trade and economic activity - but that went begging.
I still call it for what it was - one of the most politically and economically catastrophic and idiotic decisions ever. And all because they had such a Silo mentality that they did not have the intellectual wherewithall to understand that Defence and Trade are symbiotic - especially with respect to the US congressional and senate filter.
Again symptomatic of the value in having someone with great trade and business links into China to make money for NZ Inc is more important than Defence.
Spot on MrC... so how do we change this? ...or perhaps more poignantly what will it take to change this (the disconnect NZer's have between Defence & Trade /Foreign Affairs)?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Probably the same thing that will bring change in Canada, a direct threat that even leftards can comprehend.
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Continuing on from the foreign influence discussion first a report to the US Congress now Canada.
Chinese interference in New Zealand at 'critical stage'...
Unfortunately more of the same head in the sand response from the PM, Surely the following descriptor ..."New Zealand was a key pawn in its strategy"... should elicit a stronger response, or pledge of action to investigate the important concerns of a key ally. (Now two allies.)
I can't work out whether its wilful ignorance, absurd naivety, or outright collaboration some thing that was as endemic in the previous Government as it is now. To pull it back to defence, continued public discussions of this problem on a global stage has to have an impact on New Zealand's credibility, and failure to respond surely has to have an impact on New Zealand's participation and effectiveness to the 5 eyes.
Chinese interference in New Zealand at 'critical stage'...
Unfortunately more of the same head in the sand response from the PM, Surely the following descriptor ..."New Zealand was a key pawn in its strategy"... should elicit a stronger response, or pledge of action to investigate the important concerns of a key ally. (Now two allies.)
I can't work out whether its wilful ignorance, absurd naivety, or outright collaboration some thing that was as endemic in the previous Government as it is now. To pull it back to defence, continued public discussions of this problem on a global stage has to have an impact on New Zealand's credibility, and failure to respond surely has to have an impact on New Zealand's participation and effectiveness to the 5 eyes.
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
CSIS should be informing Canadians about China’s influence in Canada before worrying about NZ, albeit it is a problem both nations need to pay attention to.
The 2018 Shangri-La dialogue was held last week. A good summary of the NZ perspective is here from David Capie. Ron Mark's speech is here (audio, Mr Mark speaks for the first 15 min, with questions from approx the 55min mark). It seems Indo-Pacific is in, Asia-Pacific is out (which will make Rory Metcalf from ANU very happy ).
Speech Transcript
).Speech Transcript
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Pure speculation here but potentially this unclassified report on NZ was linked to a classified report on Canada, demonstrating potential influences publicly to create a public dialogue followed by an in-house version of Canada's similar issues.
Incorrect Reporting on Investigation into 2004 Allegations
14 June 2018
Media reporting today suggesting the New Zealand Defence Force has just launched an investigation into allegations related to a 2004 NZSAS patrol and firefight are incorrect.
On 1 September 2017 the NZDF released a statement following the Stuff Circuit documentary.
In it, the Chief of Defence Force, Lieutenant General (LTGEN) Tim Keating, said with regard to the NZSAS long range patrol in 2004, that the Chief of Defence Force would respond publicly when all the information has been gathered.
“This event took place 13 years ago, and we are taking time to gather all the facts, after which we will respond publicly.”
LTGEN Keating said today the final stages of that legal process are being completed, and the results would be released publicly soon.
The NZDF would note that Stuff Circuit also reported on 30 August last year on an NZDF internal message from the Chief of Defence Force which referenced that process.
The NZDF will not be commenting further at this stage.
NZDF - Incorrect Reporting on Investigation into 2004 Allegations
Good.
14 June 2018
Media reporting today suggesting the New Zealand Defence Force has just launched an investigation into allegations related to a 2004 NZSAS patrol and firefight are incorrect.
On 1 September 2017 the NZDF released a statement following the Stuff Circuit documentary.
In it, the Chief of Defence Force, Lieutenant General (LTGEN) Tim Keating, said with regard to the NZSAS long range patrol in 2004, that the Chief of Defence Force would respond publicly when all the information has been gathered.
“This event took place 13 years ago, and we are taking time to gather all the facts, after which we will respond publicly.”
LTGEN Keating said today the final stages of that legal process are being completed, and the results would be released publicly soon.
The NZDF would note that Stuff Circuit also reported on 30 August last year on an NZDF internal message from the Chief of Defence Force which referenced that process.
The NZDF will not be commenting further at this stage.
NZDF - Incorrect Reporting on Investigation into 2004 Allegations
Good.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
I find that article, having read the entire breifing, a bit rich from both congressional senator and cia analyst parroting it, that Nz is untrustworthy with their secrets, giving the current leaks from Trumps own trusted advisors, the russiagate mess, and Trumps own unsecure meetings with foriegn officials at Mar a largo months ago, instead of the White House! Or his use of twitter to talk of policy, all of which certainly is far riskier than an imagined threat here. Trade sanctions are only alienating Usa further from its long standing defence partners.
OTOH it must be pretty galling that a nation is getting stiffed with a $850B annual trade deficit and paying for most of the Defence heavy lifting within the Western Alliance of liberal democracies. I would say that is pretty alienating.