Nh-90???

Kiwi Echo

New Member
ive been doin a fair heap in a half amount of research on this composite chopper classed as medium transport, but is used for also navey, specia; ops , and assault

france 32 germany 31.25 5.???nordic forgot the other group involved with
nh industries establisment but any how

with 12 odd countries planning to purchase them
spain 45 and new zealand 8-12 being the new blokes on the block ready to take the plunge

i cant seem to find out how gud they actually are ah??

from wat ive read they hav only been through 3000hrs of logged flights
overheatin tests & altitude tests

all of these countries are investin in these fancy choppers without much of in the way of trials to back them up

does any1 out there an expert on the subject and can tell wat all the fuss is about with this chopper

cheers
:p:
 

turin

New Member
Well, for starters, the orders are much higher. Germany has total orders of about 110, Italy about the same, France comes in with around 30, the other countries like Norway, Greece, Finland etc. with numbers between 10 and 20. First batch totals for around 240 units.
The TTH (transport) and NFH (naval) versions are quite different in some respects, so its not just one helo which can do several/all these things. There is at least on more customized version as well, namely the TTT version for Sweden (and I think, Norway and Finland as well) with larger/higher fuselage and more adapted to cold environments.

This helo is in development now for a long time, starting back in 1990. There were several prototypes (Five units IIRC), first flight was in 1995, first NFH operations in 1998. So this helo has come a long way in terms of flight testing. Also this thing is not being produced by some inexperienced newcomer in the aviation sector, but by some of the most experienced ones, namely Eurocopter (world leader) and Agosta.

Why the fuss? Well I think, the general performance and data on the helo is quite convincing. Check some websites on the subject, like naval-technology, globalsecurity etc. and you might come to the same conclusion.
The layout is rather conventional but who says this is bad. It features all desired modern technologies (glass cockpit, FBW, sensors), so it simply fullfills the requirements and its a fully european project, which is certainly a factor for some participants as well.

Nothing unusual about the flight tests as well, it was extensively tested in all necessary environments, desert, arctic (quite important aspect for Norway and Finland) etc. Cannot confirm the flight hours, but I try to check that when I got the time.

Links:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/nh90.htm
http://www.nhindustries.com
 
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A

Aussie Digger

Guest
The NH-90 is proving to be one of the most successful helo's of modern (ie: last 10-20 years) times. Australia has ordered 12 already, with an expect order of up to another 30 to fully replace our S-70A-9 Blackhawks and Iroquois.

You can bet your bottom dollar then when countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Germany, France, Sweden, (in fact ALL Nordic countries) that it's a pretty good helo, especially given that it has satisfied all the various requirements of these very different forces...
 

Kiwi Echo

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  • #4
damn dat things wicked

Total NH90 orders are 357 fixed and 120 options from 11 countries

thx for the info turin

concernin the the change to the fuselage with norway and finland why do they want it slightly enlargened exactly?

Are that tall over there???? lol

The helicopters for France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Finland are fitted with a self-protection suite from EADS Defence Electronics, which is also to equip the Tiger helicopter. The suite includes EADS AN/AAR-60 MILDS missile approach warning system, Thales TWE Threat Warning Equipment with integrated radar warning and laser warning receivers and MBDA Saphir-M chaff and flare dispenser. Norwegian NFH are to have the ITT AN/ALQ-211 Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (IRFCM) suite. Swedish helicopters will be equipped with an EW suite supplied by Saab Avionics, in conjunction with Avitronics of South Africa. Avitronics is jointly owned by Saab and Grintek.

also wat about the avionics for the countries other than those above?

like spain New Zealand and Australia etc?

the armourment includes anti-sub torpedoes air to air and air to ground
missiles

why not have a 20mm machine gun under the nose like the tiger cause they both will have the same software programs whatever you want to call it installed into both of them??

Also Aussie digger do you think that the nh-90 will be able to land onto
the ANZAC frigates both New Zealand and Australia have?

cheers

:)
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Kiwi Echo said:
damn dat things wicked

Total NH90 orders are 357 fixed and 120 options from 11 countries

thx for the info turin

concernin the the change to the fuselage with norway and finland why do they want it slightly enlargened exactly?

Are that tall over there???? lol

The helicopters for France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Finland are fitted with a self-protection suite from EADS Defence Electronics, which is also to equip the Tiger helicopter. The suite includes EADS AN/AAR-60 MILDS missile approach warning system, Thales TWE Threat Warning Equipment with integrated radar warning and laser warning receivers and MBDA Saphir-M chaff and flare dispenser. Norwegian NFH are to have the ITT AN/ALQ-211 Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (IRFCM) suite. Swedish helicopters will be equipped with an EW suite supplied by Saab Avionics, in conjunction with Avitronics of South Africa. Avitronics is jointly owned by Saab and Grintek.

also wat about the avionics for the countries other than those above?

like spain New Zealand and Australia etc?

the armourment includes anti-sub torpedoes air to air and air to ground
missiles

why not have a 20mm machine gun under the nose like the tiger cause they both will have the same software programs whatever you want to call it installed into both of them??

Also Aussie digger do you think that the nh-90 will be able to land onto
the ANZAC frigates both New Zealand and Australia have?

cheers

:)
I believe the Australian MRH-90's (what we call em) are going to have an EWSP very similar to what you outlined above. I've no idea about the Kiwi version, as they haven't even announced how many they are going to buy yet, let alone details such as equipment fits etc.

As to the ANZAC frigates, there should be no problem's landing an NH-90 on them, but apart from the Naval version, why would the TTH be landing there? ANZAC's can only operate 1 medium helo at a time and your's (and soon ours) Seasprites would have to go elsewhere...
 

Kiwi Echo

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  • #6
?????????/

away from the topic nz is buyin two of your anzac frigates ah

anyway

whoops i got mixed up i mean that new multi role vessel we r gettin soon

there dosent seem to be much info leaked out on nz kit ah even thou we cant buy much and dont exactly hav flash gear lol:nutkick
 

Whiskyjack

Honorary Moderator / Defense Professional / Analys
Verified Defense Pro
The numbers of NH9s that the RNZAF are getting as well as the LUHs were supposed to be announced at the end of 2005, but as we know governments work slowly. The most repeated guess is 8 NH90s. I am thinking that there will be some frantic lobbying to get these from the Australian production line as the other ADF NH90s do not seem to be close to an order as yet and 12 ADF as well as 8 NZDF NH90s (or MRHs!) would keep the costs down and the production line ticking over.

The issue being that both defence forces need the aircraft sooner rather than later.

Still operational need usually take a back seat to politics!
 

turin

New Member
concernin the the change to the fuselage with norway and finland why do they want it slightly enlargened exactly?

Are that tall over there???? lol
Not exactly, but as far as I know, the additional space is supposed to be a bonus while doing work onboard since the TTT (Tactical Troop Transport) is supposed to be used extensively in search and rescue missions.
 

turin

New Member
Higher fuselage = more internal space. More internal space allows for further equipment and/or better handling of wounded troops during SAR deployments. Thats the explanation of EADS.
 

Kiwi Echo

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  • #11
i saw one (german) of them being flown in kashmir where the quake happened
iwas watchin dw tv when i saw it.
it was droppin off corugated iron for roofs of temporary houses to help the people endure the cold
 

turin

New Member
I highly doubt that it was a german NH-90. Only two units were delivered so far and they are used for the training of future NH-90-crews.
The helos used by the german army in Kashmir were coming from Afghanistan and the contingent there consists exclusively of CH-53GS.
 

Kiwi Echo

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  • #13
im 110% sure that it was a an nh-90

in nz there is this tv channel called ctv and it changes over to this german
channel called DW Tv and I saw it in the news follew directly
after by this documentry(called in-depth report) about the
new two seater eurofighter and that flash tiger chopper
and there was also a small segment about the nh-90 in kashmir
 

turin

New Member
Well, you have to believe me when I am saying that its simply not possible. I checked the News page of the german army though and it backs up my previous information. First aid was rendered by ISAF units from Afghanistan with CH-53GS helos, and then the regular help kicked in with Heeresfliegerregiment 15 and 25 (Army Air Force Regiments). Both regiments use CH-53G helos. There simply is no NH-90 available for such operations, and even if it would be, the CH-53 are far better suited since they carry heavier payload.
This news report mixed something up. Wouldnt be anything new about it...german news and reports (even the so called "in-depth" ones) are regularly in error about specific military hardware.
So even if it was a NH-90 operating in some mountainous environment (wouldnt be surprising, since its part of the training), then it certainly was not in Kashmir!
 

Whiskyjack

Honorary Moderator / Defense Professional / Analys
Verified Defense Pro
Yes the Media are not great I have seen them call a B-1 Bomber a F-16!!!

One question you may be able to help with Turin, have you seen door guns for suppressive fire fitted to the NH-90? If so what would that leave the maximum lift at? E.g. with door guns the seating goes to 16-17 etc...
 

turin

New Member
As far as I am aware there are no photos of a NH-90 equipped with door guns. The specs for the german CSAR version say that there is room for two door guns. The special seating of the NH-90 might even allow to retain the maximum lift of troops (for seating arrangement see: http://www.nhindustries.com/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=10012 ). It might depend on the gun though. The german army uses the MG-3 as well as the M3M by Herstal. With the latter one the seating might go down by two or four seats. But thats just an uneducated guess.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Whiskyjack said:
Yes the Media are not great I have seen them call a B-1 Bomber a F-16!!!

One question you may be able to help with Turin, have you seen door guns for suppressive fire fitted to the NH-90? If so what would that leave the maximum lift at? E.g. with door guns the seating goes to 16-17 etc...
A close look at a photo of an NH-90 will show a small window behind the main cabin. This is the loadmaster's position and the "door guns" will be mounted here. Guns and loadies make no difference to the carrying capacity of this aircraft.
 

Whiskyjack

Honorary Moderator / Defense Professional / Analys
Verified Defense Pro
Kiwi Echo said:
you mean like the mini guns that are fitted on the blackhawks???//?/?//?/
More likely GPMGs with their 7.62 or the 0.5 inch HMG.

I could be wrong here but I thought the Mini Gun is not the prefered option in the US any more. I remember hearing that the US forces did not like it, not accurate, not enough range and to indiscriminate.

Back to the NH-90 tho it is interesting to see that it seats up to 20 and I have seen the seating plan for 20, in NZ it is quoted at 16 in Australian press at 18.

Is this just the normal Media not knowing what it is talking about or are their different options for different operators?
 
A

Aussie Digger

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Kiwi Echo said:
you mean like the mini guns that are fitted on the blackhawks???//?/?//?/
7.62mm "Mini-guns" could indeed be fitted, but I think it's unlikely. Something like the FN M3M "soft recoil 0.50cal machine gun or 7.62mm MAG-58's are probably more likely. Greater accuracy, less rate of fire (which is a good thing as you're ammo isn't used up too quickly) greater lethality and range (in the case of the 0.50cal) and definitely cheaper...
 
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