New Zealand Army

[RegR]

Garrison vehicles is moving forwards by parts it seems. The fire pod mounts have been agreed to by type but the details as to how they will be modified is being ironed out. I guessing the success of that may determine the vendor for later orders. But the fire pod trucks are the most urgent.

The fire pods are already in service, have been for awhile, from memory @17 were built for army and airforce replacing the hino rural tenders that were becoming difficult to support. A few deployed to the big fires we went through earlier in the year.

Currently they are mounted on stripped down unimogs (for weight) but can be easily ISO mounted on MHOV for deployment and will no doubt transfer to the new GATS vehicle in the future once that is finally chosen.

 

[RegR]

Could be possible, I was just speculating from the picture, only the MR6 has the driver and passenger doors, the original hull design does not.

But as we know the pictures or models do not always tell the real story or accurately depict what a customer ends up with, but to me maybe a little strange if they did go with the old hull design when they have gone to the effort and have been marketing the MR6 as the latest design, just my thoughts.

A good move by NZ regardless, will be interesting to see what is announced next, was there any indication of NZ obtaining a PMV-L like Hawkei etc ?

Cheers

Agreed, good proven purchase with vastly more options than the current armoured pinz. I see this first tranche as just a initial option as has been reported as replacing the armoured pinz (not all pinz as some think) and select unimogs, so presumably current unarmoured ones like ambos or shelter models. We currently have 60 armoured pinz so falls well short of 1 for 1 replacement even without any mog types being replaced as well, so unless we are dropping some current requirements then we must me either aqquiring more or another type as well especially if the army expansion plans are to be believed.

I can still see us getting a hawkei/LMT type in the "light" role (I would consider bushmaster as a medium type) to complement and round out LAV in our armoured fleet as just like Australia aqquiring hawkei, one size does not fit all and role specific comes into play ie liasion, DFSW, ambo, HQ, troop transport etc. I can see a light, med, heavy requirement such as hawkei, bushmaster, NZLAV to cover more roles, options and theatres.

I also hope it is MR6 as this is the latest version rather than re-furbed second hand models (regardless of "low ks") just because if we are going to do it than may as well do it right from the outset and the seemingly long lead in time would point to new builds otherwise like the NZSAS variants we could have them in relatively short order otherwise.

But yes, good kit either way.

 

[MrConservative]

RegR what is your take on the Drago A1 in terms of a light mobility platform that bridges the MRZR and a light armoured Hawkei type in the NZ Army context? (I personally wouldn't mind a civvy one for a bit of backcountry recreation )

 

[RegR]

RegR what is your take on the Drago A1 in terms of a light mobility platform that bridges the MRZR and a light armoured Hawkei type in the NZ Army context? (I personally wouldn't mind a civvy one for a bit of backcountry recreation )

I like it, MRZRs bigger more ruggedised combat brother but I think the MRZR is the govts go to option in this section and would be surprised if they would stump up for both types tbh unless SAS can put forward a case. Would be a good asset though even in small numbers just for its carrying capacity alone and yes, I would love one for the back blocks! but I guess much like govt thinking the MZR will suffice for price (actually I personally still would'nt mind).

 

[Shanesworld]

The fire pods are already in service, have been for awhile, from memory @17 were built for army and airforce replacing the hino rural tenders that were becoming difficult to support. A few deployed to the big fires we went through earlier in the year.

Currently they are mounted on stripped down unimogs (for weight) but can be easily ISO mounted on MHOV for deployment and will no doubt transfer to the new GATS vehicle in the future once that is finally chosen.

Your right but the mogs are becoming unserviceable and the pods need to be transferred to the new selected vehicle. That requires a new deck to accommodate them.
We've just been referring to them as the fire pods when it's actually the deck design and the power feed.
Vehicle is chosen but it's the manner of delivery and lease versus owning that us being worked through now.

 

[RegR]

Your right but the mogs are becoming unserviceable and the pods need to be transferred to the new selected vehicle. That requires a new deck to accommodate them.
We've just been referring to them as the fire pods when it's actually the deck design and the power feed.
Vehicle is chosen but it's the manner of delivery and lease versus owning that us being worked through now.

They are self powered and ISO capable meaning they can be transfered to any standard deck with twist locks quickly and easily with a forklift, they can also be ground mounted if required. Was kind of the whole point so as not to tie down a vehicle otherwise they would have just built them onto a dedicated chassis with PTO like normal fire trucks. The only things hardwired into the actual trucks are the lights and siren.

Yea the only problem with the mogs is that they are old, underpowered and don't have the capacity to legally carry a fully loaded pod, just currently there are plenty of spare mogs floating around for use, most modern trucks do not have these limitations.

 

[Shanesworld]

They are self powered and ISO capable meaning they can be transfered to any standard deck with twist locks quickly and easily with a forklift, they can also be ground mounted if required. Was kind of the whole point so as not to tie down a vehicle otherwise they would have just built them onto a dedicated chassis with PTO like normal fire trucks. The only things hardwired into the actual trucks are the lights and siren.

Yea the only problem with the mogs is that they are old, underpowered and don't have the capacity to legally carry a fully loaded pod, just currently there are plenty of spare mogs floating around for use, most modern trucks do not have these limitations.

Yes to twist locks and self powered pump. But the new trucks are just cab and chassis. But the lights and siren cables apparently need some modification on the truck side of things aswell as getting onto the pod from side of truck. So they need a suitable deck and it's a project that keeps being started and back burnered for some reason so I'm half expecting some complications.

We haven't been given a pod yet to go over and the trucks are still on the assembly line. We're just clearing our existing facilities soon to make way for them. But theres been some new, ahemmmm, additions to our workload last week.

 

[Shanesworld]

And in terms of the mog fleet there's driveline parts spread all over the cave opposite MRO that are u/s and no replacements available. Its pity because they are a brilliant,well designed, well built machine but their clocks are winding down.

 

[Gibbo]

Found these couple of references today, although nothing official that I have been able to find from NZDF or Thales, both articles quote the pictures as "Supplied" and/or credit to Thales/NZ Army.

Both articles show the same picture and the Bendigo Advertiser quotes "43 new Bushmasters" & "The company's Bendigo factory will build"

Not reading too much into it, but the pictures "supplied" show the newer MR6, one of the key visual differences being a driver and passenger doors, time will tell.

Congrats NZ, they will serve you well no doubt

Cheers

New Zealand army to receive 43 Thales Bushmaster Protected Vehicles

google_ad_client = "pub-4068738923530102"; /* 468x15 data sheet menu top dark green */ google_ad_slot = "3500417247"; google_ad_width = 468; go

www.armyrecognition.com

Bendigo lands $75m Bushmaster contract with New Zealand

Thales Australia's Bendigo factory has landed the contract for 43 Bushmasters.

www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au

Yeah hard to say, press releases rarely give the level of detail we here would all like! I note it does say Thales supplied Fiji but I'm certain their's were refurbs. Just a random thought... with the introduction of a 'front-doors' on the MR6 and the clearly obvious 'gap' on the leading hinge edge... does that not compromise the ability of the forward hull to withstand blast? eg: IED, RPG etc. Blast wave will of course find any surface sitting prone to it's direction of travel and subject that surface to explosive force... could it not rip the door off in certain blast dymanics? The older solid forward hull looks superior to my untrained eye.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

The new fleet of 43 Australian-designed and built Bushmaster NZ5.5 will provide better protection for personnel and improved carrying capacity.

New Armoured vehicles for New Zealand Army

They are being called NZ5.5 variant not MR5.5 or the MR6 not sure if this is a typo or on purpose meaning, they are slightly different setup to meet NZDF requirements etc... or older revamped Aussie models. But as far as I know a lot of the older Aussies models have been revamped to MR6 standard (not sure if they all have yet)

Who would know... will have to wait for a couple years of before we find out. The ones that were being displayed I am pretty sure were on loan from the NZSAS

 

[RegR]

New Armoured vehicles for New Zealand Army

They are being called NZ5.5 variant not MR5.5 or the MR6 not sure if this is a typo or on purpose meaning, they are slightly different setup to meet NZDF requirements etc... or older revamped Aussie models. But as far as I know a lot of the older Aussies models have been revamped to MR6 standard (not sure if they all have yet)

Who would know... will have to wait for a couple years of before we find out. The ones that were being displayed I am pretty sure were on loan from the NZSAS

Yea I took the NZ5.5 variant to be the NZSAS variant which are refurbed models as those were the ones being shown to the media at the time. Perhaps if army do get the MR6 then the NZSAS ones will become the training pool and they will get the latest version from the new fleet as well. Surely they are new builds considering it will be another 2 years before we even see them in NZ?

The sales team obviously did not pitch NZLAV to Argentina well enough as they went with stryker? could have paid for the Bushies outright.

Argentina requests $100m sale of Stryker ICVs from US

The Government of Argentina has requested a foreign military sale (FMS) of 27 M1126 Stryker ICVs and associated equipment from the US.

www.army-technology.com

 

[ngatimozart]

Yea I took the NZ5.5 variant to be the NZSAS variant which are refurbed models as those were the ones being shown to the media at the time. Perhaps if army do get the MR6 then the NZSAS ones will become the training pool and they will get the latest version from the new fleet as well. Surely they are new builds considering it will be another 2 years before we even see them in NZ?

The sales team obviously did not pitch NZLAV to Argentina well enough as they went with stryker? could have paid for the Bushies outright.

Argentina requests $100m sale of Stryker ICVs from US

The Government of Argentina has requested a foreign military sale (FMS) of 27 M1126 Stryker ICVs and associated equipment from the US.

www.army-technology.com

Yep, but also the Argies mightn't had the coin to pay for them either, or the funding arrangements weren't sufficient enough for the NZG.

 

[Redlands18]

Yep, but also the Argies mightn't had the coin to pay for them either, or the funding arrangements weren't sufficient enough for the NZG.

Would NZ sell Military equipment to Argentina? may upset the Poms a bit.

 

[ngatimozart]

Would NZ sell Military equipment to Argentina? may upset the Poms a bit.

I don't know and like Australia we're well used to upsetting them in Rugby Union, League and Cricket

 

[RegR]

Yep, but also the Argies mightn't had the coin to pay for them either, or the funding arrangements weren't sufficient enough for the NZG.

Yes I'm sure there was/is something, FMS, other deals, keep US happy etc etc. I guess not everyone needs a 25mm cannon to move troops haha.

Surely getting near the time we bite the bullet and just make use of them. Take the turrets off and convert into support vehicles, mortars, ambos, C2, eng etc, they are obviously not going anywhere and I can see another skyhawk chapter happening again where it costs us just to store them anyway so may as well put them to work anyway.

 

[Redlands18]

I don't know and like Australia we're well used to upsetting them in Rugby Union, League and Cricket

Unfortunately not so much in Union any more, on this side of the Ditch.
We upset them in Sport they may take their Bats and Balls home but if NZ upsets them over Argentina they may take their CAMM Missiles and go home.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

I'm just glad they are getting rid of the LOV's... they never were really up to standard... and I heard through the grapevine that the army never wanted them and wanted to be on the Bushmaster line...

 

[RegR]

I'm just glad they are getting rid of the LOV's... they never were really up to standard... and I heard through the grapevine that the army never wanted them and wanted to be on the Bushmaster line...

Armoured LOV, technicality. Hopefully we eventually go with the G wagons in the future to replace the soft skinned LOVs.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

Armoured LOV, technicality.

true that... ;-)

 

[KiwiRob]

Though I am not fond of some of his more dodgy party mates, I would like to see him back for another stint as Defence Minister, and this time with more fiscal resourcing.

With National having a brain fart and picking Crusher Collins as leader the chances for Ron keeping his job improved significantly, so long as NZ First remains in Parliament.