New Danish Frigates

[PhillTaj]

http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/NavyNews/2006/0622_PatrolShips.htm

Three New large Frigate sized Patrol Ships for the RDN granted

The final projecting of three new large patrol ships is now underway, production can start, and the new ships will be ready for commmissioning in 2010-2011

tThese new ships wil enable the RDN to paticipate in a great number of different tasks, says the Admiral Danish Fleet, these ships will be able to endure international operational tasks spending from humanitarian missions to combat missions.

The latest design draft of the new patrol ships...

The latest design draft of the new patrol ships, here seen with the Dutch guidance, surveillance and early warning systems, APAR (fore) and SMART L (aft).
(Illustration by courtesy of the Naval Material Command)

type:

Patrol Ship (frigate)

Number of units:

3

Years of Construction:

2007-2011

Dimensions:

Length: 138 m
Beam: 20 m
Draught: 6 m

Displacement:

6,200 tons

Complement:

Around 100 men (accomodation for 160)

Armament:

1 - 127 mm Gun M/02
1-2 - 76 mm Gun M/85
1-2 - 35 mm Gun M/04 (CIWS)
x - 12,7 mm Heavy Machine Guns
16 - HARPOON SSM Block II
24 - Evolved Sea Sparrow (ESSM) SAM's
1 - Mk 41 Multi missile launcher with 32 cells for long range SAM's etc.
2x2 - Stinger SAM Lv M/93
2x2 - Anti Submarine Torpedo Launchers (MU-90)

Speed:

28 knots

Range:

9,000 nautical miles at 15 knots

_______________________

I hadn't even heard of this project until this morning?

thoughts?

This class would make a great new Northern Patrol Vessel for Canada if we decide to go with a combat capable ship.

 

[Grand Danois]

The rest of the 3D graphics from the Naval Material Command.

http://forsvaret.dk/FMT/Projekter+S%C3%B8v%C3%A6rn/Patruljeskibe/3D+grafik/

and a PDF (in Danish) describing some of the specs and mission profiles of the ships.

Cheers

 

[PhillTaj]

The rest of the 3D graphics from the Naval Material Command.

http://forsvaret.dk/FMT/Projekter+S%C3%B8v%C3%A6rn/Patruljeskibe/3D+grafik/

and a PDF (in Danish) describing some of the specs and mission profiles of the ships.

Cheers

Great stuff!

The Danes have a first rate navy for such a small country- imperial ambitions in Canada's north I say!

 

[Grand Danois]

Great stuff!

The Danes have a first rate navy for such a small country- imperial ambitions in Canada's north I say!

It certainly will be.

Let just the Canucks come hither!!!

No, really, they are not built for the high arctic so they will not be the scurge of Canada. But that is in the mission profile.

(I will try and translate the PDF when I get the time...)

Cheers

 

[contedicavour]

Can you also keep us posted about the AAW missile decision on the new 3 FFGs ? If SM-2 IIIB is installed aboard these ships will become in reality DDGs (though probably the smallest modern DDGs in the world ) and this would mark a huge increase in the Danish Navy's capabilities. Especially if one compares with the Niels Juel corvettes they are replacing !!

Congratulations to a very promising Navy.

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

Can you also keep us posted about the AAW missile decision on the new 3 FFGs ? If SM-2 IIIB is installed aboard these ships will become in reality DDGs (though probably the smallest modern DDGs in the world ) and this would mark a huge increase in the Danish Navy's capabilities. Especially if one compares with the Niels Juel corvettes they are replacing !!

Congratulations to a very promising Navy.

cheers

I think you need not worry as I am going to post anything newsworthy on this project I get my hands on.

Smallest modern DDG? How big is an Orrizonte?

It also marks a shift in the use and purpose of the Navy, away from confined littoral combat with the WARPAC navies into a tool for more activist defence policies.

I translated a select bit from the PDF. This link should work.

Operational tasking and application of Patrol Ships
The Patrol Ships will be fitted out and equipped for [purely] maritime national and international tasks, as well as tasking in the context of joint international operations.

Tasking is expected to include

• Embargooperations
• Enforcement of zones of exclusion, sea and air
• Command platform for a staff
• Helooperations with maritime helo
• Firesupport for operations ashore
• Escort for naval forces and civilian shipping

Just like all other newbuilds of the Navy the Patrol Ships will also be fitted out for a range of everyday peacetime tasks, including:

• Supply and support
• Search and rescue
• Assert sovereignty and exercise authority [judicial, govt]
• Gathering of intelligence
• Education
• Surveillance of the environment

-------------------

This can of course be interpreted in a multitude of ways...

[EDIT:] Missiles is a separate procurement decision, which has been postponed till after 2009. But the choice for a LR SAM has been between Aster 30 and SM-2 Blk IIIA so far. The choice of launcher will reveal a lot

 

[PhillTaj]

I imagine they would go with the SM series in order to be compatible...the Danes are amongst the most solid of America's allies, as evidenced by the treatment the Danish PM recently recieved in Washington.

Too bad you lost your silent service! I tell ya our Naval staff was quite up in arms over your AIP equipped boat, S325 Kronborg during that whole Hans Island dispute.

 

[Stuart Mackey]

The total cost of the three new patrol ship will be in the surrounding of 4,7 billion Danish kroners (around US$ 800 millions),

If this is the price for all three..its not a bad deal, or is that price per vessel?

 

[contedicavour]

I think you need not worry as I am going to post anything newsworthy on this project I get my hands on.

Smallest modern DDG? How big is an Orrizonte?

It also marks a shift in the use and purpose of the Navy, away from confined littoral combat with the WARPAC navies into a tool for more activist defence policies.

I translated a select bit from the PDF. This link should work.

Operational tasking and application of Patrol Ships
The Patrol Ships will be fitted out and equipped for [purely] maritime national and international tasks, as well as tasking in the context of joint international operations.

Tasking is expected to include

• Embargooperations
• Enforcement of zones of exclusion, sea and air
• Command platform for a staff
• Helooperations with maritime helo
• Firesupport for operations ashore
• Escort for naval forces and civilian shipping

Just like all other newbuilds of the Navy the Patrol Ships will also be fitted out for a range of everyday peacetime tasks, including:

• Supply and support
• Search and rescue
• Assert sovereignty and exercise authority [judicial, govt]
• Gathering of intelligence
• Education
• Surveillance of the environment

-------------------

This can of course be interpreted in a multitude of ways...

[EDIT:] Missiles is a separate procurement decision, which has been postponed till after 2009. But the choice for a LR SAM has been between Aster 30 and SM-2 Blk IIIA so far. The choice of launcher will reveal a lot

Thks for the PDF file. Although I obviously haven't understood everything (Danish isn't easy ), I have understood most of the equipment and data mentioned in the file. Just 2 questions : if I understand correctly, the 127mm gun is "fitted for but not with" ? Regarding the AAW radar, choice is restricted to Sampson, Smart or APAR, ... does the EMPAR still has a chance ?

To answer your question, the Andrea Doria and the Caio Duilio (our first and for the moment only Orizzonte DDGs) are 7100 tons, 153 metres long, 20 wide, 29 knots and 230 personnel.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

I imagine they would go with the SM series in order to be compatible...the Danes are amongst the most solid of America's allies, as evidenced by the treatment the Danish PM recently recieved in Washington.

Too bad you lost your silent service! I tell ya our Naval staff was quite up in arms over your AIP equipped boat, S325 Kronborg during that whole Hans Island dispute.

Compatible with whom ? Most operations are likely to be with other European countries. Germany and the Netherlands have SM-2, but the UK, France, and Italy have Aster....

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

I imagine they would go with the SM series in order to be compatible...the Danes are amongst the most solid of America's allies, as evidenced by the treatment the Danish PM recently recieved in Washington.

Too bad you lost your silent service! I tell ya our Naval staff was quite up in arms over your AIP equipped boat, S325 Kronborg during that whole Hans Island dispute.

Compatibility is in my view not a big issue as the PAAMS equipped Type 45's will have CEC at some point.

I have a really, really hard time imagining any sort of military confrontation between DK and Canada at any level. Quite to the contrary the Danes an Cdns are intimately cooperating on the upcoming sovereignty issues wrt the high artic (north of Greenland and Canada).

But if you care to, I would certainly love to hear more on the considerations of your naval staff. Sounds exciting!

 

[Grand Danois]

If this is the price for all three..its not a bad deal, or is that price per vessel?

and...

Thks for the PDF file. Although I obviously haven't understood everything (Danish isn't easy ), I have understood most of the equipment and data mentioned in the file. Just 2 questions : if I understand correctly, the 127mm gun is "fitted for but not with" ? Regarding the AAW radar, choice is restricted to Sampson, Smart or APAR, ... does the EMPAR still has a chance ?

To answer your question, the Andrea Doria and the Caio Duilio (our first and for the moment only Orizzonte DDGs) are 7100 tons, 153 metres long, 20 wide, 29 knots and 230 personnel.

cheers

Thought it was worth flagging that the Danish Parliaments Committee of Finances confirmed and signed the use of the last 4.3 billion DKK for a total sum of 4.7 billion DKK for three 6,200 t FFG's this very day.

1 USD = 6.1 DKK, which makes for 783 million USD.

That means 261 million USD per ship. Looks dirt cheap (and it is) but it requires some explanation.

• The cost is sans procurement of guns, launchers and missiles, but includes the fixed 32 VLS cells per ship and the installation of a gun in the A position. The missiles for the fixed VLS have a separate account of around 16 million USD. Besides the VLS, the only other structurally integrated weapon system on the ship is the gun in the A position. The A position is structurally prepared for the UD 5" Mk45 mod 4, but will initially be fitted with an OTO Melara Super Rapido 76mm M/85. The 5" Mk45 mod 4 is an option for an upgrade in the future. The 5" Mk45 mod 4 on the Absalons cost 15 million USD each.
  
  The B position is a Flex position and will carry either an OTO Melara Super Rapido 76mm M/85 or an Oerlikon Contraves Millenium 35mm M/04 CIWS.
  
  The weapons deck has the 32 cell VLS for LR SAMs and/or land attack missiles. It also have has four flex positions, which will carry two Mk56 VLS launchers with a total 24 ESSM and two AHWCS containers with a total of 16 Harpoon Blk II.
  
  Lastly, on top of the helo hanger there wil be an Oerlikon Contraves Millenium 35mm M/04 CIWS.
  
  As all of these systems are already in the Flex inventory no new procurement is needed, as they are just plugged in (takes about an hour per Flex position. However, guns have to be calibrated post install). The MU90 and Stingers are also already in inventory.
  
  
• We're basically talking UPC as the design cost and tooling up has been paid through the building of the Absalon class vessels. My rough estimate on an PAUC is somewhere around 320-330 million USD per ship with everything included.

The EMPAR was never in contention. I cannot say why it wasn't considered...

I didn't remember that the Orrizontes were that big, hehe.

Considering it might be worth writing an entry into the weapons DB of DT when choice of VLS and radars has been made... Hmmm.

Cheers

 

[contedicavour]

Wow I hadn't understood that the ESSM could be launched from FLEX positions, so that all of the 32 VLS cells are available for land-attack or SM-2 or Asters... these ships are starting to resemble the USN Zumwalt design in terms of firepower (ok I exaggerate a bit, but you get the point )

cheers

 

[ren0312]

These purchases are good news for the Danish military, hopefully it should push Danish defence spending over the 2 per cent of GDP level, although I think that they would have been better off buying LDP's/LHD's for peacekeeping/peacemaking operations, with the job of fleet escorts being left to the USN in times of operations.

 

[contedicavour]

These purchases are good news for the Danish military, hopefully it should push Danish defence spending over the 2 per cent of GDP level, although I think that they would have been better off buying LDP's/LHD's for peacekeeping/peacemaking operations, with the job of fleet escorts being left to the USN in times of operations.

I think it's dangerous to rely on somebody else for defence purposes... I prefer to have escorts and eventually to rely on commercial transport for overseas missions rather than having LPDs and may be nobody to escort them in hostile waters

cheers

 

[docrjay]

If EMPAR was chosen plus asters for the long range SAM's. They'll need missile directors for their ESSM wouldnt they?

On the other hand if it were APAR then they should not have a problem directing ESSM and Asters coz asters have active seekers anyway...

OR EMPAR can be tweaked to direct ESSM...

What do you guys think?

 

[Grand Danois]

Absalon update

Whilst there is nothing new on the FFG's there is a press release on the radars for the Absalon class vessels.

18 July 2006
SMART-S Mk2's First Air Picture

Again a milestone in the ultra-short development process of SMART-S Mk2, Thales' new surveillance radar: The first air picture is a fact (see photo). This is the ultimate proof that the 3D radar is starting to operate as a radar. Despite the fact that only 10 of the 16 powerbooks were installed, the radar easily reached a range of 225 km. However, the testing process is still far from finished. In addition to testing the air picture compilation, qualification tests are to be performed. Other items on the schedule include the flight trials and the actual operational tests with a test target that has a very small radar cross section. The radar will be ready for the Factory Acceptance Test by the end of this year. The second system, also destined for the Danish Navy, is presently subjected to harsh environmental tests. After that this system will also be installed on a test tower for the ultimate system tests.

http://www.thales-nederland.nl/nl/news/archive/2006/July-18-2006.shtml

 

[Grand Danois]

If EMPAR was chosen plus asters for the long range SAM's. They'll need missile directors for their ESSM wouldnt they?

On the other hand if it were APAR then they should not have a problem directing ESSM and Asters coz asters have active seekers anyway...

OR EMPAR can be tweaked to direct ESSM...

What do you guys think?

I would think that separate illuminators would be needed, as EMPAR is C-band and illumination for ESSM is in X-band. And although the EMPAR is frequency agile, it is probably not possible for that kind of leap.

Yup, Asters don't need the illumination, as they have active radar homing, so they should work with the APAR.

 

[contedicavour]

I would think that separate illuminators would be needed, as EMPAR is C-band and illumination for ESSM is in X-band. And although the EMPAR is frequency agile, it is probably not possible for that kind of leap.

Yup, Asters don't need the illumination, as they have active radar homing, so they should work with the APAR.

I read somewhere on a military magazine that EMPAR can guide SM-2 and ESSM provided you have separate illuminators.
The Italian Navy checked this out for the mid life modernization of our 2 DDGs De La Penne and Mimbelli. ATBM capability is being considered for them, using SM-2 IV. Radars would be EMPAR and S-1850 (those on the Orizzonte DDGs).
I doubt we'll find the budgets and FREMM carry a higher priority, but the feasibility check was done.

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

AAW suite has been chosen. APAR/SMART-L was the choice. This would be optimal with the preferred choice of missiles (ESSM/SM-2). Less complex to integrate than SAMPSON I would think.

*Thales-NL to supply AAW suites for Danish frigates
The selection of Thales-NL over a competing offer from UK-based BAE Systems' Insyte was made on 15 August by the Naval Materiel Command in Copenhagen,...
18-Aug-2006

http://jdw.janes.com/public/jdw/index.shtml