New Danish Frigates

Palnatoke

Banned Member
GD

I am not saying that a 6k tons frigate isn't more cabable than a 300t fast boat. I am saying that in specific scenarios the small boat makes a lot more sense and can better utilize special condition favorable to it's purpose.

While you are right that the increased height of the larger unit, gives it a longer horizon, it also works for the smaller unit: When there is a line of sight there is a line of sight. Though the small vessel is in the electromagnetic clutter near the surface of the sea, the tower of the large ship is not. There are too many parameters that affects detection, to make a straight forward conclusion. Though it remains that the smaller unit can better utilize the special operational enviroment of littorial combat, than a larger unit.
Anyway it's not interesting f.ex. since the defender does not have to search for the large unit in the given scenario (It will have to establish a fireing solution, though it will/could be cued by other observation means).
My point is that the smaller unit will bring a significant threath, which until found and destroyed will effectivly perform as a "keep out" sign for the invader's high value assets and it is cheap, can be in large quantities and will be hard(er) to localize and destroy for an invader (given a balanced over all defense, specifically an effective (land based) air defense).
I just don't see where a large unit fit into a balanced territorial defense of the isles of Denmark; you would have 3 high value assets floating around waiting to be hammered, while the rest of the defense will - that is if we want to be succesfull - survive by being dispersed and difficult to detect, relying on modern forms of communication and control to deliver a cohesive effort - exactly when it matters.

I agree that most defense should be land based though navial assets provides an offensive cabability, in the given scenario (protecting the isles from a landing).

In any case, we are discussing a scenario that is so unrealistic that we have to dream up war with germany, sweden or the US. I am 100% in favour of the new frigates and the new security policy, since I believe the need for an effective and credible territorial defense is zero.

Wrt to a flyvefisken succesor:
I am all for it, though along side it's traditional missions, it should be designed with a view for (constant) deployment to f.ex the mediterrainen, where it could operate from friendly bases there. Having a combat unit only suitable for operating in danish homewaters is a combat unit that will never ever be used as a combat unit. The missions that the navy has to take care off in danish waters can be more effectively (that'll be crew-money wise) taken care of by units with only a very limited combat value.

Wrt it's size it's big enough to carry enough weapons and good enough sensor suites, though maybe the crew accommodation will suffer from it's small size?
 

Palnatoke

Banned Member
An update to the AAW frigates.

First of class IVER HUITFELDT has been commisioned (I think it's called, though not ready for service yet).



The second ship has been named PETER WILLEMOES and is nearing completion

http://forsvaret.dk/FMT/Materiel/Skibe/Fregatter/Foto/Foto%20PETER%20WILLEMOES/2011%20PETER%20WILLEMOES/20110519%20WILM%20p%C3%A5%20vej.JPG

A small "demo"

http://wms1.jay.net/ftv/FMT/Fregat.wmv


The helicopter tender is out and the contenders are Panther, Sea hawk and Wild cat (surprisingly Westerland didn't offer the EH101, eventhough that one allready is used by the DK navy as SAR and in the army as transport).

Weapon systems:

Lockheed Martin Mk. 41

Boeing Harpoon launchere blok II.

Raytheon Evolved Sea Sparrow launchers

Oto Melare Super Rapido

Oerlikon Contraves Millenium

Eurotorp MU90

Terma decoy system

a number of 12,7 mm guns

As far as I know, No concrete decession on the missiles for the MK 41. but when and if I quess it will be some SM2 variant.
I don't think that the current budget situation allows for any dreams of TacToms etc.

Sensors

* Thales APAR
* Thales SMART –L
* Furuno navigation radars
* FLIR systems Seastar Seafire III
* ATLAS ASO 94 hull mounted sonar - ASO94
* ISAAB CEROS
* EDO 3701


From the navy's description:

Skroget er konstrueret, så der er taget hensyn til lav radarsignatur, lav infrarød stråling, lav udstråling af undervandsstøj og lav magnetisk signatur, så fregatten er så usynlig som mulig for en eventuel fjende.
The hull is constructed with respect to low radar signature, low infrared signature, low acoustic noise and low magnetic signature as to ensure that the frigate is as stealthy as possible

Fregatten er udrustet med både helikopterdæk og hangar, så det er muligt at operere med helikoptere af for eksempel typen EH-101.
Men dækket er også konstrueret, så der kan lande større og tungere helikoptere på helt op til 20 tons.
Deck and hanger designed to operate f.ex. helicopters like an EH101, the deck is constructed to handle Helicopters of 20t

Skibet er bygget, så det er muligt at bruge søværnets flex-koncept. Det betyder, at våben og sensorer monteret i containere kan bruges fleksibelt på tværs af søværnets forskellige typer af skibe.
Designed to use the navy's flex-concept, so that container mounted weapons and sensors can be used across the navy's different units.

Platformen er konstrueret, så den beskytter besætningen under sejlads gennem forurenede områder, ligesom skibet kan overleve større skader. Dæk tre er anset for at være rødt dæk, det vil sige, at dækket kan lukkes vandtæt. Samtidig er fregatten opdelt i seks havarizoner, der indeholder tre hovedcitadeller, områder der er gasfri og gastætte.
Platform desiged to protect crew during passage of contaminated areas. High degree of damage survivability. Deck three is "red deck" which is water tight, and the frigate is divided into 6 damage controle zones, including 3 main citadels, which are gas-free and gas-tight.

De to bageste citadeller er opdelt i to zoner. Alle fire zoner og det forreste citadel er udstyret med hvert sit filter, som beskytter mandskabet ved angreb med kemiske, radioaktive eller biologiske våben. Filtrene fungerer uafhængigt af hinanden. Der er også luftsluser mellem hver zone og citadellerne, som man kan komme ind gennem en af de tre rensestationer.
The two most aft citadels is divided into two zones, all (those) four zones and the forward citadel is equiped with independent filters (against ABC contamination) air-locks etc divides the zones.

Powerplant

fire hovedmotorer af typen MTU 8000 20V M70, der er anbragt to og to i hvert sit maskinrum. Hvert par driver en vridbar propel via et RENK reduktionsgear. Det giver fregatten en fart på +28 knob.
Four main engines ( MTU 8000 20V M70) two-by-two. each pair drives a twisting? (virdbar) propeller via a RENK reduction gear. Propels the frigate at 28+ knots.

Crew 101.
 

radar07

New Member
any information about the apar mdifications? i read somewhere that the apar for the danish frigates has been modernized compared to the apar already in service on the lcf and f-124.
 

Palnatoke

Banned Member
any information about the apar mdifications? i read somewhere that the apar for the danish frigates has been modernized compared to the apar already in service on the lcf and f-124.
I believe that Thales made some modifications to the electronics of their radar that increased performance, I don't know, but it seems reasonable that a new customer would have that modification included?
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Second of the Iver Huitfeldt Class, Peter Willemoes, on sea trials (with radars installed). A damn fine looking ship imho!

Officiel testsejlads med Fregatten Peter Willemoes

Agreed. They look fine and should prove very capable ships. Interesting they are sticking with 76mm guns though.

Any chance they'll get a new ammunition type for longer ranging and/or precision strikes? I recall someone mentioning something similar to the 127mm Vulcano suited to 76mm calibre but my Google Fu isn't "on" tonight and I can't find a source for this just now...
 

Grand Danois

Entertainer
As I recall the intention was to have the 5 inch mk45 mod 4 on the Absalons as well as the Iver Huitfeldts using ERGM. It seems this was dropped as the ERGM was shelved by the US and budgets dried up on the RDN project. As it is, only the command and support ships (Absalons) have the 5 inch.

There should also be 76mm OTOs aplenty with the decommisioning of three Niels Juel Class (3) as well as the rest of the Flyvefisken class (14 to begin with). This would explain why the Iver Huitfeldts will probably be equipped with 2x76mm OTOs and why the Knud Rasmussen Class OPVs got a 76mm, though they were originally intended to be on "fitted for but not with".

Speaking of the Knud Rasmussens, I assume you have already seen this crazy SHOL on the Knud Rasmussen off the Faroes! By Aussie firm Prismdefence, btw.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC2XIGMI2kM"]YouTube - ‪Lynx Helicopter Operating Limit Development‬‏[/nomedia]


Anyhow, there should be plenty of lucrative upgrades to the existing 76mm OTO, i.e. the Strales/Dart.

OtoMelara - Ammunition

More photos:
http://marinetraffic.com/ais/dk/showallphotos.aspx?imo=9478212#top_photo
 
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