John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,021
Are the percentages for eligible vaccine candidates or the entire population?
New Coronavirus threat
- Thread starter John Fedup
- Start date
16 and above at the moment ... but the programme is being rolled out for 12 and above as well. This is accelerating quite well as most Australians in the eastern states are sick of lockdowns and closed borders.
There are still some that object to vaccination but the numbers are smallish.
In NZ it's 12 and above. Delta is still wrecking havoc in Auckland, is present in the Waikato and Northland. We had one case in the Mainland (South Island) last week in Blenheim which is under control. The Ministry of Health is up to its usual ineptitude and issuing permits to people to travel from the infected areas to the non infected areas without checking their vaccination status. That’s generally how the virus is moving outside of Auckland.
We've also had a very small minority who think that the rules don't apply to them and they have broken the lockdown rules and gone from the containment zone to different parts of the rest of the country using trumped up reasons. They've been caught and generally charged. There have been some socalled freedom demonstrations recently. The cops have arrested and charged the organisers. One fool was arrested whilst on bail and charged with breaching his bail conditions which prohibited him from organising or speaking at any anti lockdown protests. Judge remanded him at large again. She should've remanded him in custody because this particular fool doesn't believe that the rules apply to him.
We've also had a very small minority who think that the rules don't apply to them and they have broken the lockdown rules and gone from the containment zone to different parts of the rest of the country using trumped up reasons. They've been caught and generally charged. There have been some socalled freedom demonstrations recently. The cops have arrested and charged the organisers. One fool was arrested whilst on bail and charged with breaching his bail conditions which prohibited him from organising or speaking at any anti lockdown protests. Judge remanded him at large again. She should've remanded him in custody because this particular fool doesn't believe that the rules apply to him.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,024
Have not read much about the Health Insurance industry’s reaction to mandatory vaccination. Can’t believe they are impressed with the huge ICU bills impact their bottom lines. Are they demanding surcharges or declining coverage to those who refuse vaccination?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
It is likely country-specific, but in the US, medical insurance has not (yet) started to drop coverage for unvaccinated people. However, people have started getting charged co-pays for COVID-19 related bills instead of the health insurance absorbing 100% of the costs. For someone that gets admitted to hospital for COVID-19, they could easily accumulate several thousand dollars (or more) in billing.
In Switzerland a few weeks ago there was a proposal by Mauro Poggia, health director of Geneva canton, to decline coverage (with regard to Covid ICU hospital costs) for unvaccinated. The national ethics commission shut that down quickly.
Switzerland has a commercialized private health insurance concept similar to the US (standard per-person plans with often massive co-pays), albeit with it being mandatory there to take out such insurance.
Poggia has in recent months repeatedly attacked anti-vaccers in a similar way, often with very "American" ideas (such as proposing to fire unvaccinated healthcare and nursing personnel), and at his kind of level is pretty much alone in his opinions on this topic.
In Germany there is a single private health insurance company (R+V) that has proposed differentiating tariffs for vaccinated and unvaccinated among their customers, similar to how they apparently already do for smokers and non-smokers (or also by age...). They only insure something like 1% of the population with full or add-on insurances though. The industry association for private health insurances have stated there are no discussions for such plans at their level, although of course individual insurance companies are free to adapt their tariffs.
The overwhelming majority of the German population (89%) uses public health insurance companies which may not differentiate tariffs, and charge their members an income-dependent standard fee with some company-dependent individualization. From 2020 to 2021 this average fee rose by 1.2%, although this was not related to the pandemic (insurances actually made a surplus during the early pandemic, on average they do not have higher costs than before). For 2022 their income-dependent standard fee will not rise.
The Daily Show with Trevor Noah has a Covid-19 take on Singapore’s 8 Dec 2021 upcoming policy change:
1. As a Singaporean, I find this comedy take so funny. Let me explain in 4 mins or less:
2. In Singapore, there is no caning for littering. Vandalism is subject to caning. Slight inaccuracies aside, we let foreigners think we’re much stricter than we really are. On 11 Nov 2021, it was reported that over the last 28 days, of the 91,581 infected individuals, 98.7% had no or mild symptoms, 0.8% required oxygen supplementation in the general ward, 0.3% were in the ICU, and 0.2% has died.
3. Ronny Chieng’s comments in his response to Trevor Noah’s Singapore as strict parent’s comments (SG as a nanny state), has me rolling over in laughter, where he said, 2 classic comedy lines (that is somewhat true):
4. On 11 Nov 2021, there were 2,396 new cases of Covid-19 infection were detected, with a weekly infection growth rate of 0.87 — which means 2.3k to 3+k infected per day. For every 3k infected, 100 are unvaxxed. The unvaxxed are clogging up ICU capacity — the current overall ICU utilisation rate is 68.9%. For clarification:
6. Singapore’s Covid-19 stats, as at 20 Nov 2021:
8. The economy has to move beyond lockdowns and this approach ensures that there is concern for seniors — to give them, their children time to talk and get vaxxed. This will reduce Covid-19 deaths. There are folks already on palliative care, which each family will have to decide. With vaccination, they can spend their remaining days with family without causing the guilt of dying earlier from a covid infection. They can also visit their favourite places.
9. Beyond PCA, travellers from Category 2 countries must serve a 7-day stay-home notice (SHN), while those from Category 3 countries serve a 10-day SHN. Category 2 countries include Cambodia, Indonesia, and Vietnam, Egypt, Hungary, Israel, Maldives, Qatar, Rwanda, Samoa, South Africa, Tonga, and the United Arab Emirates. Category 3 countries include Japan, Laos, Myanmar, the Philippines, and Thailand. Travellers from regions in category 1 can enter Singapore without having to serve a SHN, these include HK, Maccau, China and Taiwan. They will have to undergo an On-Arrival COVID-19 PCR test.
1. As a Singaporean, I find this comedy take so funny. Let me explain in 4 mins or less:
(a) From 8 Dec 2021, all Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated "by choice" will have to pay their own medical bills if they are admitted to hospitals or COVID-19 treatment facilities.
(b) This is a targeted move to encourage conversations between adult children and their elderly parents.
2. In Singapore, there is no caning for littering. Vandalism is subject to caning. Slight inaccuracies aside, we let foreigners think we’re much stricter than we really are. On 11 Nov 2021, it was reported that over the last 28 days, of the 91,581 infected individuals, 98.7% had no or mild symptoms, 0.8% required oxygen supplementation in the general ward, 0.3% were in the ICU, and 0.2% has died.
3. Ronny Chieng’s comments in his response to Trevor Noah’s Singapore as strict parent’s comments (SG as a nanny state), has me rolling over in laughter, where he said, 2 classic comedy lines (that is somewhat true):
"In Singapore you live forever... but have way less fun".
"If you don't take your covid vaccine, we're gonna treat you like an American... In Singapore, being treated like an American in the Healthcare system is the biggest punishment you can give someone…"
4. On 11 Nov 2021, there were 2,396 new cases of Covid-19 infection were detected, with a weekly infection growth rate of 0.87 — which means 2.3k to 3+k infected per day. For every 3k infected, 100 are unvaxxed. The unvaxxed are clogging up ICU capacity — the current overall ICU utilisation rate is 68.9%. For clarification:
(a) Singapore does not have universal healthcare but it does have by default, a Medisave (compulsory CPF savings), a MediShield (insurance component) and a co-pay portion under the healthcare system. When the Govt. says it stops free Covid-19 from 8 Dec 2021, this default co-pay system would apply to Covid-19 hospitalisation and other treatments.
(b) As a country, we have 64k seniors 60 years and older who are not vaccinated. The aim is to vaccinate 20k more of our unvaxxed seniors, to relax the pressure on the ICUs, and bring that down to the 50 mark for intubated ICU. At about 200 new vaccinations per day of unvaxxed seniors, it will take Singapore 2 months to get there; and
(c) If Singapore can double the number of daily new vaccinations for our unvaxxed seniors, we can get there in 1 month, well before Christmas. For seniors who are compos mentis, mentally alert, their children will ask them if they would like to be protected against dying from Covid-19.
(d) Concurrently, Vaccinated travel lanes (VTL) have started, the purpose of which is to enable quarantine free travel, to and from Singapore in a safe manner. There 13 to 16 countries enrolled in the initial phases and the Govt. is looking to reach agreements with more countries and regions; and these VTLs include (1) Australia, (2) Brunei, (3) Germany, (4) Canada, (5) Denmark, (6) France, (7) Finland, (8) Italy, (9) Korea, (10) Malaysia, (11) Netherlands, (12) Spain, (13) Sweden, (14) Switzerland, (15) the UK and (16) the USA.
(e) Travellers from (17) Qatar, (18) Saudi Arabia and the (19) United Arab Emirates will be able to enter Singapore from 6 Dec 2021, in a further expansion of the VTL scheme. Alan Lim, engagement manager at Alton Aviation Consultancy, said the limited number of travellers on the VTL to Singapore so far is in line with expectations at this stage. Reasons include caution among travellers, the costs of multiple Covid-19 tests and the fact that 8 of the VTLs so far started only on 19 Oct 2021. Between 8 Sept to 1 Nov 2021, there were 14 imported Covid-19 cases were detected among 13,731 travellers who entered Singapore. Prof. Paul Tambyah, senior consultant at the National University Hospital's Division of Infectious Diseases, said the question of whether a Covid-19 incidence rate of 1 per 1,000 vaccinated travellers is acceptable depends on Singapore's risk appetite.
(f) Singapore and Malaysia have a Periodic Commuting Arrangement (PCA), designed specifically for companies to bring in workers into either country, was rigid. Workers were required to stay in their country of employment for at least 90 days and the costs of quarantines and testing made it particularly onerous for blue-collared workers and their firms.
(g) Singapore, (20) India and (21) Indonesia will resume scheduled commercial services between these countries. The aim is to start two VTL flights per day, each from Chennai, Delhi and Mumbai by 29 Nov 2021. There will be two daily VTL flights between Singapore and Jakarta for a start, and this will go up to four.
5. This 8 Dec 2021 policy tool will get the adult children of these unvaxxed seniors in Singapore, to talk to their parents; and this will help persuade 20,000 to 25,000 unvaxxed folks to get vaccinated, by Dec. Keep in mind that Singapore achieved 85% vaxxed rate without a vaccine mandate taking effect. Reaching 85% population vaccinated, means 89% of +12’s are vaxxed.
6. Singapore’s Covid-19 stats, as at 20 Nov 2021:
- Total SG Covid-19 deaths = 654
- New deaths = 13
- Cumulative SG infected = 250,518
- New SG Covid-19 count = 1,931
- Received booster shots: 23% of pop
- Partial (1 dose or more): 86% of pop
- Vaxxed (2 doses): 94% of eligible pop
(i) overly alarmist warnings of rise in SG infection numbers (cumulative 250.5k on 20 Nov) & deaths (654 deaths in total or 13 new deaths); or
(ii) complacency & inattention to key Covid-19 scorecards, like ICU usage (ICU utilisation rate is 56.8%), & % of eligible pop. unvaxxed (6%).
8. The economy has to move beyond lockdowns and this approach ensures that there is concern for seniors — to give them, their children time to talk and get vaxxed. This will reduce Covid-19 deaths. There are folks already on palliative care, which each family will have to decide. With vaccination, they can spend their remaining days with family without causing the guilt of dying earlier from a covid infection. They can also visit their favourite places.
9. Beyond PCA, travellers from Category 2 countries must serve a 7-day stay-home notice (SHN), while those from Category 3 countries serve a 10-day SHN. Category 2 countries include Cambodia, Indonesia, and Vietnam, Egypt, Hungary, Israel, Maldives, Qatar, Rwanda, Samoa, South Africa, Tonga, and the United Arab Emirates. Category 3 countries include Japan, Laos, Myanmar, the Philippines, and Thailand. Travellers from regions in category 1 can enter Singapore without having to serve a SHN, these include HK, Maccau, China and Taiwan. They will have to undergo an On-Arrival COVID-19 PCR test.
Last edited:
In Australia we get free healthcare and that does breed complacency. Of course free healthcare isn't really free. It is just publicly funded insurance.
In the private sector cost of insurance is often adjusted dependant on how big a risk you represent. Pay outs can also be adjusted down or even denied if you breach certain conditions. I cant see why public healthcare shouldn't be treated the same way.
In the private sector cost of insurance is often adjusted dependant on how big a risk you represent. Pay outs can also be adjusted down or even denied if you breach certain conditions. I cant see why public healthcare shouldn't be treated the same way.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,029
Same in Canada but as for adjustments based on behaviour, it’s a non-starter. Pollies only see lost votes doing that. Easier to just raise taxes and call it health care inflation.
I am of the no vax, no job no fun persuasion. Like Australia NZ has free health care and some individuals have health insurance. The health system here is overly bureaucratic with an excess of managers that would make the EU bureaucracy envious. Every time funding cuts have to be made it is always to medical staff and medical services and never to the bureaucracy. In fact they get more non medical managers in to assess and manage the problems. On top of this is a Ministry of Health full of policy wonks who haven't a clue about operational concepts and matters, that is quite dictatorial and so out of step it isn't funny. At the moment it is blatantly ignoring its own Minister and has upset another Minister. Between it and MBIE they have really upset at least 30,000 Kiwis overseas trying to return home, by making it extremely difficult for them to reenter the country with their MIQ policies.
It is my opinion that if someone refuses to have the vaccine for non medical reasons, that are verified, then they should be made to pay for the full cost of any COVID-19 related medical expenses incurred by them. This includes ambulance costs, first responder costs, full medication costs, the lot. If they go to Court about it, they are responsible for all parties full legal costs. I have absolutely no sympathy or time for them.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,031
Somewhat OT but this story really has me wondering about the competency of the CDC. I realize “stuff” happens but forgotten vials of smallpox in an old freezer…WTF
Several vials labelled 'smallpox' have been found at a vaccine research facility in Pennsylvania, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.
Vials labelled 'smallpox' found at vaccine research facility in Pennsylvania, CDC says
Several vials labelled 'smallpox' have been found at a vaccine research facility in Pennsylvania, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday.
Vials labelled 'smallpox' found at vaccine research facility in Pennsylvania, CDC says
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,032
No mandatory vaccination for children, probably doesn’t matter quite as much for children but they are good inflection spreaders for the adult fools that aren’t vaccinated. Mixed feelings about this, maybe ending the adult antivaxxers via under 12 year olds is karma.
The federal government says it has no plans to enforce a vaccine mandate for children, as Health Canada green lights the first COVID-19 vaccine for those aged five to 11 years old. Health Minister Jean-Yves Duclos says, as it stands now, Ottawa won't apply the same mobility restrictions to children as they have to adults travelling in and out of the country.
Feds have no plans to extend vaccine mandate to kids: Duclos
The federal government says it has no plans to enforce a vaccine mandate for children, as Health Canada green lights the first COVID-19 vaccine for those aged five to 11 years old. Health Minister Jean-Yves Duclos says, as it stands now, Ottawa won't apply the same mobility restrictions to children as they have to adults travelling in and out of the country.
Feds have no plans to extend vaccine mandate to kids: Duclos
Even a double vaccination of Pfizer is not a guarantee,I am aware that an aged care home had a nurse feeling off, sent home for testing who returned to work before results were in, was able to pass on to 15 residents covid, at present one has died with covid they were all double vaccinated several months earlier the efficacy though wearing off they were in the stage of booster shots
I would add that those who are opposed to children receiving vaccinations should read this on what's already happening and has for many years
www.education.vic.gov.au
I would add that those who are opposed to children receiving vaccinations should read this on what's already happening and has for many years
Immunisation
www.education.vic.gov.au
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,034
All good information on vaccination, unfortunately there is a portion of the population that just don’t get it in many democracies. You can’t fix stupid….well except in Xi’s China, take the COVID shot or the lead shot.Even a double vaccination of Pfizer is not a guarantee,I am aware that an aged care home had a nurse feeling off, sent home for testing who returned to work before results were in, was able to pass on to 15 residents covid, at present one has died with covid they were all double vaccinated several months earlier the efficacy though wearing off they were in the stage of booster shots
I would add that those who are opposed to children receiving vaccinations should read this on what's already happening and has for many years
Immunisation
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,035
Rather surprised there no reports of Omicron in the US yet. Intentional delay reporting perhaps? Possibly stricter airport entry controls at US airports as compared to Canada might explain why we have several cases despite having 1/10 the population. In any event, it is only a matter of time.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,037
Yep, the critical question is how well will current vaccines defend against it. Hopefully reasonably well, but if not, mRNA specific to Omicron could be available within 100 days (according to vendors).
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
First confirmed US case of the Omicron variant found in California, per a WH press briefing earlier today. There had been suspicions that the variant was already in the US, just had yet to be detected. I personally suspect that it was more a matter of taking the time and lab resources to do testing for specific variants, rather than reporting delays.
Paull Fuzzball
New Member
South Africa cases climbing sharply despite it is summer there. Thankfully death rate is very low in South Africa, which could suggest omicron is very mild.
www.worldometers.info
South Africa COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
South Africa Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
Paull Fuzzball
New Member
I think current vaccines would suck at preventing infection but would continue work very well against hospitalization and death. Omicron has more mutations than mu and it is confirmed current vaccines have very weak neutralization against mu, so it makes sense current vaccines are pretty much useless against omicron.
Neutralization of the SARS-CoV-2 Mu Variant by Convalescent and Vaccine Serum | NEJM
Correspondence from The New England Journal of Medicine — Neutralization of the SARS-CoV-2 Mu Variant by Convalescent and Vaccine Serum
www.nejm.org