Military Aviation News and Discussion

[Terran]

we assume that the two systems are substantially different that the hard clutch isn’t a issue for V280. As yet we don’t know for certain.
This is as Bell doesn’t want to reveal to much of the mechanism.
As to applying the V280 “solution” assuming that it is one. I can only imagine the result would be a V22 with scaled up wings and nacelles of a V280. Again assuming that V280 is immune to the Hard clutch.

My point is that the ending of the V22 line isn’t because of the clutch. The DOD has bought what it feels it wanted. That’s why the line is in jeopardy. If a U.S. Ally asked to buy more V22 then the line could be extended. If the Japanese bought more or the RN joined or the Ausies or the French or anyone else who might see a potential need. Otherwise yeah it’s borrowed time.

 

[John Fedup]

we assume that the two systems are substantially different that the hard clutch isn’t a issue for V280. As yet we don’t know for certain.
This is as Bell doesn’t want to reveal to much of the mechanism.
As to applying the V280 “solution” assuming that it is one. I can only imagine the result would be a V22 with scaled up wings and nacelles of a V280. Again assuming that V280 is immune to the Hard clutch.

My point is that the ending of the V22 line isn’t because of the clutch. The DOD has bought what it feels it wanted. That’s why the line is in jeopardy. If a U.S. Ally asked to buy more V22 then the line could be extended. If the Japanese bought more or the RN joined or the Ausies or the French or anyone else who might see a potential need. Otherwise yeah it’s borrowed time.

Yes I agree production is ending due to US needs being fulfilled not because of the clutch issue. This issue combined with the Osprey cost makes further export orders difficult however.

 

[ngatimozart]

Another article pointing out questionable decisions by the US army that will degrade the military industrial capacity down the road. Also mentioned in the article was the army decision to close the Lima, Ohio tank plant. Good move by by Congress to can that plan given the Ukraine decision.

The Philadelphia area will take a huge hit if Chinook production ends. The V-22 is also produced here and that ends in 2025 as per my post 774.

Army Failure To Embrace Chinook Helicopter Upgrades Endangers Industrial Base

Army planners need to think more rigorously about the industrial fallout from their program choices.

www.forbes.com

The cynic in me suggests that some individual or group within the army is playing politics. The army aren't the brightest and best when it comes to acquisitions. They have a tad poor acquisition record.

 

[Redlands18]

Raytheon contracted for first Next Gen Jammer pods for Australia | ADBR
The Next Gen Jammer pods, the AN/ALQ-249(V1) for the EA-18G have been awarded low rate initial production, with 11 shipsets for the USN and 4 for the RAAF.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The US State Department has approved the request of the Government of Bahrain to buy equipment and services to refurbish twenty-four (24) Excess Defense Article (EDA) AH-1W multi-role helicopters. Included are services to refurbish a full-motion Aircraft Procedures Trainer (APT), M272A1 missile launchers and spare T-700-GE-401 aircraft engines, spare parts, support, training, publications, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $350 million.

It is unclear if Bahrain will keep the AH-1E/F after the arrival of the 24 refurbished AH-1Ws, but i expect the AH-1W will be in operation besides the ordered fleet of AH-1Z.

Bahrain – AH-1W Helicopter Refurbishment | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

Edit: Some more Bell AH-1 news.
Earlier this month photos from the first Bell AH-1Z Viper for the Vzdušné síly armády České republiky (CzAF, Czech Air Force) in full colours started to appear on twitter.

Czech Air Force Viper shows colours

Czech Air Force Viper shows colours Early April 2023, photos from the first Bell AH-1Z Viper for the Vzdušné síly armády České republiky (CzAF, Czech Air Force) in full colours wer...

www.scramble.nl

 

[John Fedup]

The re-engined B-52H will be known as the B-52J, joining the other veteran military aircraft with a “J”, the Hercules C-130J.

Re-Engined B-52 To Be Designated The B-52J

It's official now: the upgraded B-52 bomber will be the B-52J. "Any B-52H aircraft modified with the new commercial engines and associated subsystems are

theaviationist.com

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

UK’s Team Tempest gets $822 million to advance next-gen warplane tech

The new investment is meant to help the government assess which technologies are ready for inclusion in a flying demonstrator by 2027.

www.defensenews.com

More good news for GCAP, as the BAE-led team has been awarded a £656 million contract for maturing the necessary technologies for the demonstrator aircraft. This is part of the wider tri-nation project.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Here some recent helicopternews.

Germany's Defence Ministry wants to buy 82 Eurcopter EC-145 civilian helicopters and convert some of them into combat helicopters to replace its Tiger combat fleet.
The acquisition of 82 aircraft will have a value of €3,05 billion euros ($3,3 billion) and 24 of them will be converted to the H-145M and armed with anti-tank missiles.

Many decades ago Germany modified the robust MBB Bo105 into a light attack/anti-tank helicopter. These Bo 105 were all replaced by the Tiger/Tigre, a fullblood anti-tank/attack helicopter. And now Germany goes back again to modified light helicopters, helicopters with still some MBB-DNA in their blood.

Germany to buy Airbus civil helicopter and convert for combat, Business Insider reports

Germany's Defence Ministry wants to buy 82 Airbus H-145M civilian helicopters and convert some of them into combat helicopters to replace its Tiger combat fleet, Business Insider reported, citing military internal documents.

www.reuters.com

On Wednesday 29 March two US Army HH-60 Black Hawks collided and crashed in the state of Kentucky, nine people died.

One month before two pilots didn't survived a National Guard Blackhawk crash in Alabama near a highway.

Negen doden bij botsing legerhelikopters in VS

De slachtoffers zaten in twee Black Hawk-toestellen tijdens een trainingsmissie.

nos.nl

Early this month a JGSDF UH-60JA helicopter went missing with 10 personnel aboard off the southern prefecture of Okinawa. The SAR-mission is still ongoing, and until Sunday 16 April, from the 10 missing persons, 7 bodies have been found.

2 people from missing SDF chopper off Okinawa confirmed dead

Five bodies have been found following a deep-sea dive in search of a Japan Self-Defense Forces helicopter that went missing last week with 10 personnel aboard off the southern prefecture of Okinawa, the Ground Self-Defense Force said on April 16.

english.kyodonews.net

 

[swerve]

This was discussed in another thread, & kato pointed out that the H145Ms wouldn't replace the Tigers, but take over a limited part of their role, freeing up the Tiger fleet to concentrate on its main roles.

Australian Army Discussions and Updates

Australian Army Discussions and Updates

"Germany is not retiring Tiger in any way, shape or form. "

The H145M procurement's been on the wish list for a while, & it looks as if it's getting funded at last.

 

[Ananda]

BAE Hawk 200 offered to Uruguayan Air Force to replace its A-37 Dragonfly

The U.S. based Falcon Air proposed to the Uruguayan Air Force (FAU) the purchase of six BAE Hawk 200 light subsonic fighters and two BAE Hawk 100 advanced train

www.aviacionline.com

Despite the article talk on Indonesia, Malaysia, or Oman inventory that Hawk 200 coming from, I do suspect it is more likely coming from Oman. Oman that potentially at this moment that can release some of their Hawk 100/200 inventory. While Indonesian and Malaysian Hawk still need some time away to get replacement.

Still for those with budget issue and not going to find in competitive aerial situation, Hawk 100/200 does provide value for money. Even it's coming mostly from 90's, it is from my understanding from TNI-AU source still not difficult for upgradeable investment. The air frames and engines not need complex effort to refurbish.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

General Atomics showing off another operational concept for their Mojave
Wondering if they can pack everything needed into a single 40ft ISO container

Mojave Drone Rapid Deployment From C-130 Shown In New Concept Video

The video reinforces how General Atomics has specifically tailored Mojave for use out of austere operational environments.

www.thedrive.com

 

[swerve]

BAE Hawk 200 offered to Uruguayan Air Force to replace its A-37 Dragonfly

The U.S. based Falcon Air proposed to the Uruguayan Air Force (FAU) the purchase of six BAE Hawk 200 light subsonic fighters and two BAE Hawk 100 advanced train

www.aviacionline.com

Despite the article talk on Indonesia, Malaysia, or Oman inventory that Hawk 200 coming from, I do suspect it is more likely coming from Oman. Oman that potentially at this moment that can release some of their Hawk 100/200 inventory. While Indonesian and Malaysian Hawk still need some time away to get replacement.

Still for those with budget issue and not going to find in competitive aerial situation, Hawk 100/200 does provide value for money. Even it's coming mostly from 90's, it is from my understanding from TNI-AU source still not difficult for upgradeable investment. The air frames and engines not need complex effort to refurbish.

It's now been reported that Malaysia has ordered FA-50 to replace Hawk 200. That'd make the Hawk 200s available, but not immediately. I don't know the FA-50 delivery schedule.

It's also been reported that KAI is reviving the fully single-seat version, originally called F-50. FA-50 is a minimum change light fighter version of T-50, with a 2-seat fuselage & canopy. F-50 had a re-profiled canopy & slightly modified fuselage. Saved a bit of weight & improved aerodynamics slightly IIRC. It'll be interesting to see what happens. FA-50 seems a suitable replacement for Hawk 200, but F-50 would be even better as a second-tier fighter.

 

[Ananda]

been reported that KAI is reviving the fully single-seat version, originally called F-50.

F-50 is older concept as KAI back up if Korean government then decided not to pursue KFX/KF-21. Now being revived however so far by KAI and not yet support by Government. KAI think it is workable when they see increasing interest for FA-50 in exports.

In concept it is not much different with Hawk 200 that by it self is single seat fighter derived from LIFT, thus make it LCA. Still even Hawk 200 only got 3 customers, and no interest from UK or any Euro Government. Something I ponder KAI executives now has to think, if they want to revive this with their own money as BAe did with Hawk 200.

That'd make the Hawk 200s available, but not immediately.

Yes, that's what I implied in my post, no immediate availability yet for Indonesian or Malaysian Hawk 200. If the idea to offer immediate replacement for Uruguay A-37, only possible with Oman stocks as now Oman stocks already in reserve.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

F-50 is older concept as KAI back up if Korean government then decided not to pursue KFX/KF-21. Now being revived however so far by KAI and not yet support by Government. KAI think it is workable when they see increasing interest for FA-50 in exports.

In concept it is not much different with Hawk 200 that by it self is single seat fighter derived from LIFT, thus make it LCA. Still even Hawk 200 only got 3 customers, and no interest from UK or any Euro Government. Something I ponder KAI executives now has to think, if they want to revive this with their own money as BAe did with Hawk 200.



Yes, that's what I implied in my post, no immediate availability yet for Indonesian or Malaysian Hawk 200. If the idea to offer immediate replacement for Uruguay A-37, only possible with Oman stocks as now Oman stocks already in reserve.

Indonesia already ordered 16+6 T-50s to replace its retired BAe Hawk Mk.53.
I wonder if the 8 Mk.109 and 32 Mk.209 will all be replaced by the KF-X, or by a mixture of T-50/TA-50/FA-50/F-50 because of the much lower price.

The current administration dislikes all defence programs started under SBY, so i don't expect that as long PDI-P is in power, large amounts of KF-X will be ordered.

 

[Ananda]

current administration dislikes all defence programs started under SBY, so i don't expect that as long PDI-P is in power, large amounts of KF-X will be ordered.

If they pay all the dues and commit to total Investment portion (that close to USD 2bio) for development costs and investment toward DI/IAe K/IFX facilities, then they have no choices to commit all the way on the program. Which I believe more as main reasons why this over due payments happen.

Korean seems realise the Indonesian political behaviors. They realise its not just matter of money for Indonesia, but where political wind blowing. For that I do see why they're also approaching Poland for potential addition International partner.

Anyway back to Hawk 200, FA-50 or even F-50 (if being revived), I do agree is more fitting for Hawk 200 replacement. Before 2020 it is already hinting Hawk 200 replacement will be FA-50.

Personally I already raised possibility (in Indonesian AF thread) if Indonesia going to pull out from KF-21, better then negotiate with Korea to license TA-50 or even bought out F-50 blue print from KAI or revive F-50 as JV with them. Seems it will be more 'politically' acceptable in Indonesian current political circles.

 

[swerve]

F-50 is older concept as KAI back up if Korean government then decided not to pursue KFX/KF-21. Now being revived however so far by KAI and not yet support by Government. KAI think it is workable when they see increasing interest for FA-50 in exports.

In concept it is not much different with Hawk 200 that by it self is single seat fighter derived from LIFT, thus make it LCA. Still even Hawk 200 only got 3 customers, and no interest from UK or any Euro Government. Something I ponder KAI executives now has to think, if they want to revive this with their own money as BAe did with Hawk 200.

I think the Hawk 200 was a flawed concept. It was competing with subsonic armed trainers at one end & cheap (including second hand) supersonic fighters at the other. Its performance wasn't enough better than the armed trainers, & it wasn't enough cheaper than the low-end supersonic fighters. There was also the prestige factor of a supersonic jet. The L-159 had much the same problem.

But there's a precedent for a supersonic trainer & successful light fighter on the same foundation: the T-38 & F-5A. F-5A sales were helped by US military aid, but even counting only sales without aid it was a success, & I think there could be a big enough niche for the F-50 to do much the same. The bottom-end western fighters now are a very big step up from subsonic armed trainers, & I think F-50 might find enough sales in that gap, to make up numbers as a second tier fighter for countries that can't afford first-line fighters to be everywhere those forces want to cover, & as a first-line fighter for some smaller & poorer air forces. That's what it's been reported Malaysia wants, the lower-tier fighter in an air force with two combat types. If correct, we could be seeing the end of Malaysia's history of buying penny packets of multiple types - perhaps.

 

[Ananda]

think the Hawk 200 was a flawed concept. It was competing with subsonic armed trainers at one end & cheap (including second hand) supersonic fighters at the other.

I see on other prospective, potential customers at the moment Hawk 200 shown to the market see it as not much additional capabilities then Hawk 100. Thus for some potential customers that looking for LCA can also see Hawk 100 can be used on that. Why procured dedicated single seat LCA when by buying Hawk 100 they can get both LIFT and LCA ?

This is I believe going to be the calculations that KAI executives come in mind. With T-50 platform so far has been shown can be developed for quite capable LCA even with AESA radar, is it justifiable to invest on purpose build single seat LCA like F-50 ? Will customers going to see F-50 like Hawk 200 as not much different then F/TA-50 or Hawk 100 ?

Got this from Bemil Chosun:



Will F-50 going to provide more than this latest iteration of FA-50 ? That's the question that going to come toward Investment decisions from KAI to revive F-50 concept. This is the relations between Hawk 200 and F-50 has connections. Both can come out as victim on the success of their sibling LIFT derivatives. Thus not consider as worthwhile Investment by potential customers that looking on both LIFT and LCA.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I see on other prospective, potential customers at the moment Hawk 200 shown to the market see it as not much additional capabilities then Hawk 100. Thus for some potential customers that looking for LCA can also see Hawk 100 can be used on that. Why procured dedicated single seat LCA when by buying Hawk 100 they can get both LIFT and LCA ?

This is I believe going to be the calculations that KAI executives come in mind. With T-50 platform so far has been shown can be developed for quite capable LCA even with AESA radar, is it justifiable to invest on purpose build single seat LCA like F-50 ? Will customers going to see F-50 like Hawk 200 as not much different then F/TA-50 or Hawk 100 ?

Got this from Bemil Chosun:

View attachment 50496View attachment 50497

Will F-50 going to provide more than this latest iteration of FA-50 ? That's the question that going to come toward Investment decisions from KAI to revive F-50 concept. This is the relations between Hawk 200 and F-50 has connections. Both can come out as victim on the success of their sibling LIFT derivatives. Thus not consider as worthwhile Investment by potential customers that looking on both LIFT and LCA.

The strongest point of a one-seater version is that removing the second seat will give you weight and space reductions, which you can use for more fuel and/or electronic equipment.

 

[Ananda]

Agreed on that, but then the questions as it will be new Investment, it is also going to be more expensive. Hawk 200 cost more then Hawk 100. It is back to the questions will F-50 going to give significant more then FA-50 ?

Seems this is the questions that come out on potential customers for Hawk 200, which then seems make customers choose on Hawk 100 more then investing on Hawk 200. I believe KAI now calculating on that, before decided on F-50. Especially if their own ROKAF not going to invest on F-50. ROKAF now already invest in FA-50. If ROKAF then decide to invest on F-50 concept, KAI will definitely going to revive it. However using their own money on F-50 as BAe done with Hawk 200, that's entirely another business calculations.

 

[ngatimozart]

The strongest point of a one-seater version is that removing the second seat will give you weight and space reductions, which you can use for more fuel and/or electronic equipment.

Yep, but there are also advantages to having a back seater. The back seater can handle all the ancillary taskings such as sensors and weapons, leaving the pilot to concentrate on flying and fighting the aircraft. The front office in a modern combat aircraft is very busy.