Military Aviation News and Discussion

[Kasatka]

Apparently, the JF-17 Block IIs that Myanmar has been operating since 2018 are having some interesting technical and structural problems + unavailability of spare parts due to China's COVID policy affecting production and travel of CAC employees to provide specialized maintenance.

Chinese-Origin, Pakistani Front-Line JF-17 Jets Plagued With Flaws; Most Of Fighters Grounded - India

If claims from the Indian media are to be believed, then about 40 percent of Chinese-origin JF-17 fighters in two Pakistan Air force bases are reportedly grounded for a variety of reasons. Russian Su-35 Jets Are Far Deadlier Than US’ F-16s, F-35s As Indonesia Plans To Opt For Sukhoi Jets –...

eurasiantimes.com

It could just be the Indian press playing a number on Pakistan again, but I got to this article after reading a piece that referenced this situation. It was written by a columnist in one Argentine online newspaper (I don't really know much about this guy, aside from him being a Captain in the Argentine Navy and a Malvinas/Falklands vet.).

Por fallas y falta de repuestos, Birmania dejó en tierra aviones chinos similares a los que quiere comprar Argentina

Se trata de los JF-17 Thunder, Block II, la versión anterior a las aeronaves que probó la Fuerza Aérea Argentina de cara a una futura licitación

www.infobae.com

His article drops some flak on Argentina's current gov. interest in the JF-17 Block III for the Air Force.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Apparently, the JF-17 Block IIs that Myanmar has been operating since 2018 are having some interesting technical and structural problems + unavailability of spare parts due to China's COVID policy affecting production and travel of CAC employees to provide specialized maintenance.

Chinese-Origin, Pakistani Front-Line JF-17 Jets Plagued With Flaws; Most Of Fighters Grounded - India

If claims from the Indian media are to be believed, then about 40 percent of Chinese-origin JF-17 fighters in two Pakistan Air force bases are reportedly grounded for a variety of reasons. Russian Su-35 Jets Are Far Deadlier Than US’ F-16s, F-35s As Indonesia Plans To Opt For Sukhoi Jets –...

eurasiantimes.com

It could just be the Indian press playing a number on Pakistan again, but I got to this article after reading a piece that referenced this situation. It was written by a columnist in one Argentine online newspaper (I don't really know much about this guy, aside from him being a Captain in the Argentine Navy and a Malvinas/Falklands vet.).

Por fallas y falta de repuestos, Birmania dejó en tierra aviones chinos similares a los que quiere comprar Argentina

Se trata de los JF-17 Thunder, Block II, la versión anterior a las aeronaves que probó la Fuerza Aérea Argentina de cara a una futura licitación

www.infobae.com

His article drops some flak on Argentina's current gov. interest in the JF-17 Block III for the Air Force.

Welcome to Defencetalk and thank you for sharing.

I can not confirm the (in)correctness of the articles above.
I can only find this report about the Pakistani JF-17 fleet from the same time period, November 2020.

Pakistan JF-17 Thunder unit shuffles

Pakistan JF-17 Thunder unit shuffles The Pakistan Fiza'ya (Pakistan Air Force) is in the process of reshuffling some of its assets. The influx of more JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraf...

scramble.nl

But they dont report about any problems in the JF-17 fleet.

And here we have a recent article about a delegation of pilots and technicians who visited China to evaluate the capabilities of the JF-17/FC-1.

Argentine Air Force delegation evaluated the JF-17 Thunder in China

A delegation of pilots and technicians traveled to China to evaluate the capabilities of the Sino-Pakistani fighter JF-17 Thunder, one of the main candidates to

www.aviacionline.com

From the five supersonic-capable candidates (the Israeli Kfir, the American F-16, the Russian MiG-35, the Indian Tejas and the Chinese/Pakistani JF-17), only the JF-17 and the second-hand Danish Airforce F-16 remain in the final stretch.
One of the main points for the Argentine Airforce is to get a fighter without British components (Martin-Baker ejection seats), so I expect that this is the main reason the HAL Tejas LCA is out of the race, and the JF-17 can only win if the chinese can offer a chinese replacement for the British ejection seat.

 

[Kasatka]

@Sandhi Yudha thanks for the warm welcome, though I've been lurking the forum since 2007

Regarding the Martin Baker issue: I would be quite surprised if that'd became a problem since there's a local subsidiary of that same company working in Argentina providing FAdeA ejection seats to build Pampa IIIs (at least if I'm not mistaken, see: MBA S.A. - ARGENTINA - MBA Argentina S.A.). I'm not quite sure, but if memory servers right there aren't any (including British) arms embargoes on Argentina atm. Off topic rant: the only embargo we have is imposed by poor economic planing, populism, nepotism and corruption, which also helps make the case that we are no longer a threat for the EF2000s operating over Port Stanley.

On the other hand, the MiG-35 as a contender sounds very improbable, as the Argentine Air Force knows it can't maintain twin engine'd aircraft. The F-16 would be probably discarded because of poor runway maintenance and the high likelihood of FOD ingestion.

IMO, the Air Force was genuinely interested in the Korean FA-50 as it ticked all the right boxes (cheap, single-engine, western, easy to maintain, reduced FOD ingestion during taxi probability). But, my above rant helps understand why even that procurement plan stalled.

 

[Rob c]

F-16 would be probably discarded because of poor runway maintenance and the high likelihood of FOD ingestion.

Could you please explain this comment about the FOD and runway on the F16. There was some talk early in the F16's life of a FOD problem by the media and other less than qualified people, but this never came to pass as the pressure reduction (Vacuum cleaner effect ) drops off very quickly and is very low at ground level and virtually nil when the aircraft is moving. the other factor in the F16's favor is the nose wheel is behind the air intake. Other combat aircraft are also low such as the F18, MIG 29 and plenty of others including the T-FA 50 and their intakes are behind the nose wheel. What is meant by poor runway maintenance? How ever bang for buck the FA50 makes a lot of sense for less well funded Air Forces.

 

[Kasatka]

@Rob c might be that same vox populi you are mentioning, and I may just have learned a new thing. Truth be told, I heard it from people around military circles (not directly from any military source mind you). Thanks.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Jordan has officially signed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the sale of eight new production F-16 Block 70 aircraft. So i think this means that Jordania has ordered 8 new F-16Vs

Jordan officially joins F-16 Block 70 Programme

Jordan officially joins F-16 Block 70 Programme On 16 June 2022, Brig. Gen. Mohammad Hiyasat, al-Quwwat al-Jawwiya al-Malakiya al-Urduniy (RJAF, Royal Jordanian Air Force) Commande...

www.scramble.nl

Jordan to Join F-16 Block 70 Program

Jordan has officially signed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the sale of eight new production F-16 Block 70 aircraft. “This F-16 acquisition reflects over 70 years of U.S. cooperation and...

news.lockheedmartin.com

On 3 February 2022, the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) approved the sale of twelve (eight single seat F-16C Block 70V and four dual-seat F-16D Block 70V) to the RJAF, so from this 12 Jordania will take 8, but it is unclear yet how many will be single or dual-seat.

At the moment the RJAF has around 59 F-16AM/BM in 3 squadrons, so ordering the latest and most advanced version of this type is a logic step.

 

[koxinga]

@Sandhi Yudha thanks for the warm welcome, though I've been lurking the forum since 2007

Regarding the Martin Baker issue: I would be quite surprised if that'd became a problem since there's a local subsidiary of that same company working in Argentina providing FAdeA ejection seats to build Pampa IIIs (at least if I'm not mistaken, see: MBA S.A. - ARGENTINA - MBA Argentina S.A.). I'm not quite sure, but if memory servers right there aren't any (including British) arms embargoes on Argentina atm. Off topic rant: the only embargo we have is imposed by poor economic planing, populism, nepotism and corruption, which also helps make the case that we are no longer a threat for the EF2000s operating over Port Stanley.

On the other hand, the MiG-35 as a contender sounds very improbable, as the Argentine Air Force knows it can't maintain twin engine'd aircraft. The F-16 would be probably discarded because of poor runway maintenance and the high likelihood of FOD ingestion.

IMO, the Air Force was genuinely interested in the Korean FA-50 as it ticked all the right boxes (cheap, single-engine, western, easy to maintain, reduced FOD ingestion during taxi probability). But, my above rant helps understand why even that procurement plan stalled.

@Kasatka the ejection seat issue is a significant problem and it continues to plague FAdeA. If it was easily solved domestically, they would not have problems with operationalising the Super Étendard Modernise that they bought used from France a few years ago.

IMO, the JF-17 remains the most possible option, not because of the technical merits of the platform but because of international politics (not Russian, not subjected to embargo) and financing that China would provide. I don't see Argentina being able to afford anything that requires cold hard cash upfront. This rules out anything used.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Six NATO countries signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly work on concepts for a next-generation helicopter.

The countries will look at range and speed improvements for a medium-lift helicopter,....

This sounds like a replacement for the EH101 and the INCREDIBLE SUCCESSFUL NH90....but...

The new aircraft must have an unrefueled range of more than 1,650 kilometers, with a target of eight hours endurance and a load capacity between 10,000 and 17,000 kilograms.

That's not medium anymore, that's even more payload than a CH-47! And the range is also impressive!

Six NATO countries sign agreement to collaborate on next-gen helo

Six NATO nations signed an agreement to collectively develop concepts for a future helicopter in Brussels on June 16.

www.defensenews.com

So they are looking for a "medium helicopter with the load capacity of a CH-53E/CH-53K but with a range of a MV-22....
Sounds totally realistic :-D

 

[koxinga]

So they are looking for a "medium helicopter with the load capacity of a CH-53E/CH-53K but with a range of a MV-22....
Sounds totally realistic :-D

I would say it is a program to rival the American's Future Vertical Lift / Joint Multi-Role program. Their own V-280 Valor/Defiant.

 

[John Fedup]

I would say it is a program to rival the American's Future Vertical Lift / Joint Multi-Role program. Their own V-280 Valor/Defiant.

Perhaps, although a larger derivative concept of Sikorsky’s FVL bid might be an option. I recall large versions with two turboprops ( paper concepts) being presented years ago. Must admit a V-280 clone seems more probable.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

On Saturday 18 June 2022, the Aviación Militar Nacional Bolivariana (Venezuelan Air Force) lost its fourth Hongdu K-8VV Karakorum.
The two crew ejected safely and suffered some injuries.

Another user on the same continent, the Fuerza Aérea Boliviana from Bolivia, has lost two K-8s recently.

Venezuela loses its 4th K-8

Venezuela loses its 4th K-8 On Saturday 18 June 2022, the Aviación Militar Nacional Bolivariana (Venezuelan Air Force) lost its fourth Hongdu K-8VV Karakorum. The two-seat jet trai...

www.scramble.nl

Spain has signed for 20 new Eurofighter 2000 Typhoon Tranch 4 combat aircraft under Project Halcon (Falcon). Announced at the ILA Air Show in Berlin, the EUR2,04 billion (USD2,15 billion) deal will cover 16 single-seat and four twin-seat jets, with deliveries to commence in 2026. The contract is part of a wider Spanish plan to replace its aging fleet of some 70 F-18s, stationed on the popular tourist island of Gran Canaria west of Africa.

ILA 2022: Spain signs for Halcon Eurofighters

Spain has signed for 20 new Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft under Project Halcon (Falcon), the manufacturer said on 23 June.

www.janes.com

 

[ngatimozart]

Six NATO countries signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly work on concepts for a next-generation helicopter.


This sounds like a replacement for the EH101 and the INCREDIBLE SUCCESSFUL NH90....but...

That's not medium anymore, that's even more payload than a CH-47! And the range is also impressive!

Six NATO countries sign agreement to collaborate on next-gen helo

Six NATO nations signed an agreement to collectively develop concepts for a future helicopter in Brussels on June 16.

www.defensenews.com

So they are looking for a "medium helicopter with the load capacity of a CH-53E/CH-53K but with a range of a MV-22....
Sounds totally realistic :-D

NHI NH-90 fiasco MK II.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Its just an ambassador who told this in the interview, but if true, then it is a really nice gift.

Sweden’s ambassador says Czech can keep Gripens for free – Alert 5

On the other hand, it also increase the chance that Czechië will choose in the future for the JAS39E/F if they don't have to return the 14 Gripens in its fleet in 2027.

 

[swerve]

Not much point taking them back unless someone else might want them, & the lease will probably have paid for them by then. Concentrate on selling upgrades & a follow-up.

 

[John Fedup]

Apparently this is new video from a 2017 V-22 crash. Pretty terrifying moment for the sailors on deck. The way it dropped is rather troubling. Don’t recall any information about this event.

Harrowing Video Of Deadly 2017 MV-22 Osprey Crash Emerges

The MV-22 was packed full of Marines when it suddenly dropped while about to land aboard the amphibious transport dock ship USS Green Bay.

www.thedrive.com

Edit

Found this 2018 article suggesting a cause.

Investigation: 2017 Osprey Crash Due to Heavy Downwash; Excessive Aircraft Weight May Have Contributed - USNI News

The Marine Corps released the administrative investigation into the Aug. 5, 2017, crash involving an Osprey from VMM-265 attempting to land on USS Green Bay

news.usni.org

 

[Redlands18]

Apparently this is new video from a 2017 V-22 crash. Pretty terrifying moment for the sailors on deck. The way it dropped is rather troubling. Don’t recall any information about this event.

Harrowing Video Of Deadly 2017 MV-22 Osprey Crash Emerges

The MV-22 was packed full of Marines when it suddenly dropped while about to land aboard the amphibious transport dock ship USS Green Bay.

www.thedrive.com

Edit

Found this 2018 article suggesting a cause.

Investigation: 2017 Osprey Crash Due to Heavy Downwash; Excessive Aircraft Weight May Have Contributed - USNI News

The Marine Corps released the administrative investigation into the Aug. 5, 2017, crash involving an Osprey from VMM-265 attempting to land on USS Green Bay

news.usni.org

I remember this, It crashed of the coast of Queensland Australia, there was a fair bit of local press coverage at the time. There was a joint US-Australian effort to recover the wreckage and bodies.

 

[John Fedup]

Seems like Tempest is likely progressing better than Europe’s FCAS project if this link on the Dassault- Airbus difficulties are to be believed. The French requirement for a future carrier jet has to be an obstacle for this program. Perhaps an EU carrier project in conjunction with France’s future carrier could make things happen, Spain might see some merit in this, especially from the naval construction side of things.

The Lost Decade for Europe's Next Generation Fighter? - Second Line of Defense

By Pierre Tran Paris – The European partner nations France, Germany and Spain looked like they were losing a decade due to a delay in launching a prototype for a next generation fighter jet, Eric Trappier, executive chairman of Dassault Aviation, said June 7. “Between us, 2040 is already gone...

sldinfo.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Seems like Tempest is likely progressing better than Europe’s FCAS project if this link on the Dassault- Airbus difficulties are to be believed. The French requirement for a future carrier jet has to be an obstacle for this program. Perhaps an EU carrier project in conjunction with France’s future carrier could make things happen, Spain might see some merit in this, especially from the naval construction side of things.

The Lost Decade for Europe's Next Generation Fighter? - Second Line of Defense

By Pierre Tran Paris – The European partner nations France, Germany and Spain looked like they were losing a decade due to a delay in launching a prototype for a next generation fighter jet, Eric Trappier, executive chairman of Dassault Aviation, said June 7. “Between us, 2040 is already gone...

sldinfo.com

So there are actually two problems.
1. Dassault/France wants to play the big leader.
2. France needs an aircraft carrier capable jetfighter, and besides Spain, no one else is interested in this.

The best solution will be France and Spain continuing with a carrier capable FCAS, and the other countries joining the Tempest program.

 

[ngatimozart]

So there are actually two problems.
1. Dassault/France wants to play the big leader.
2. France needs an aircraft carrier capable jetfighter, and besides Spain, no one else is interested in this.

The best solution will be France and Spain continuing with a carrier capable FCAS, and the other countries joining the Tempest program.

French intransigence to the fore again. What's new. They'll do the same with the tank, but it seems it's always especially so when Dassault is involved.

 

[John Fedup]

So there are actually two problems.
1. Dassault/France wants to play the big leader.
2. France needs an aircraft carrier capable jetfighter, and besides Spain, no one else is interested in this.

The best solution will be France and Spain continuing with a carrier capable FCAS, and the other countries joining the Tempest program.

The problem for Spain is they have no plans at present for a CATOBAR or STOBAR carrier.