Malaysian Army/Land forces discussions

[qwerty223]

In times of war I dont think it will be an exactly a wise move to transport the armor assets on open highways. That will be easiest thing to do but don't you think it will leave them exposed for harrassment and destruction by enemy air-assets. Unless we have achieved complete air-superiority I dont any commander would risk such a move.

i would say, security measure should be and must be taken into account every time a decision maker make a decision.

 

[swerve]

Thats explain my low marks in history
But ive read up again about the soviet-german battle.
It is stated that the main reason that the germans lost was because of the cold season.
The russians were of course more in number but they also used a lot of tactics that crushed the german army.
The russians also believe in a spirit in winter that protects russia from advancing enemy.The russians claim in the old age that the barbarians there once nearly reach the middle of russia but the winter killed them all.
Im not as good as you in history but im quite sure about this.

[Peace]

It is stated? By who? Sounds like something from a primary school history book. German armies often won battles, while heavily outnumbered, in the middle of the Russian winter. Think for a moment about what that tells you.

 

[DavidDCM]

For me, the best tactics in this regard will be to trade grounds and absord the attack as deep as possible, avoid head-onn battle early on and deny the advancing enemy a chance for a decisive engagement in their favor. at the same time, using highly mobile hit and run tactics, continuosly harassing enemy logistic tail. Either the enemy will slow down their attack to cope up with reduce logistics (as a result of the attacks) or they'll outrun their logistics. once this happen, i will release the main force with an objective to surround and cutoff the enemy deep inside our territory.

The 11th KAD is not in proximity, but there are other units who are supposed to stop an invasion.
Northern Malaysian peninsular is protected by the Army's 3rd Division, which is the best equipped Division of the Malaysian army except for it's lack of MBT's.
It consists (combat units only) of 3 brigades, among them the 4th Mechanized, the only Mechanized Malaysian brigade (ACV-300's and MIFV's).
All in all, the 3rd Division brings up:
6 Light Infantry Battalions
2 Light Infantry Reserve Battalions
1 Parachute Reserve Battalion
3 Mechanized Infantry Battalions
1 Mechanized Infantry Reserve Battalion
2 Armoured Battalions (with Sibmas-90 AFSV)
5 Artillery Battalions

3rd Division has the only Malaysian Mechanized Brigade, it's the only Division to have two Armoured Battalions (one of them, the 1st KAD, is directly associated to the 4th Mechanized) and it has half of Malaysia's whole Artillery.

I don't think that such a force would be based in the north if the Generals' plan would be to let the Thai army advance far into the country at first, before striking back. And also, I don't think that the whole defence plan is centered around the the 48 PT-91M's. Don't forget, these tanks are completely new, not even fully in service yet, whereas Thailand has it's overwhelming tankfleet since decades. There must have been a defence plan before the PT-91M's had arrived, and I guess it still works today, with some punch added by the MBT's.

 

[Waylander]

Actually, the consideration is more a balance of speed vs protection. Another consideration is that tank tracks will chew up the asphalt rendering it less usable to other vehicles. Tank transporters are still the way to travel. There are a number of alternative routes to the north.

However, several of the Northern routes are mountainous. The terrain makes it easy to defend without tanks.

The rationale for basing at Gemas is simple. The locality has good tank terrain.

The roads are going to be damaged?
No rubber tracks available for the PTs? IMHO this is still important.

As for speed vs protection. If one has to travel such a distance in Malayisa I don't think that there are other alternatives than highways or by train.
Going on small streets and cross country 400km through heavy terrain is not going to be usefull.

 

[Pro'forma]

For me, the best tactics in this regard will be to trade grounds and absord the attack as deep as possible, avoid head-onn battle early on and deny the advancing enemy a chance for a decisive engagement in their favor. at the same time, using highly mobile hit and run tactics, continuosly harassing enemy logistic tail. Either the enemy will slow down their attack to cope up with reduce logistics (as a result of the attacks) or they'll outrun their logistics. once this happen, i will release the main force with an objective to surround and cutoff the enemy deep inside our territory.

Thanks, I was going earlier about to think you'll have it right.
Attacks are prevented, global peace is in front.

 

[qwerty223]

I don't think that such a force would be based in the north if the Generals' plan would be to let the Thai army advance far into the country at first, before striking back. And also, I don't think that the whole defence plan is centered around the the 48 PT-91M's. Don't forget, these tanks are completely new, not even fully in service yet, whereas Thailand has it's overwhelming tankfleet since decades. There must have been a defence plan before the PT-91M's had arrived, and I guess it still works today, with some punch added by the MBT's.

Yes i agreed with it. I would say they are flexible armor support or offensive power.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[Chrom]

, I don't think that the whole defence plan is centered around the the 48 PT-91M's. Don't forget, these tanks are completely new, not even fully in service yet, whereas Thailand has it's overwhelming tankfleet since decades. There must have been a defence plan before the PT-91M's had arrived, and I guess it still works today, with some punch added by the MBT's.

Btw, funny thing - at the last arms exhibitions Russia made a proposal to upgrade Malaysian PT-91M. Reportedly, malaysians said they'll seriosly consider it , and are also quite discontent with all these delays and bugs in PT-91M.
Seems Poland didnt had a trully ready PT-91M for production, and needed to develop and aquire some components in process after contract signed.

 

[Waylander]

What could russia offer as an upgrade?
The weaker basic armor cannot be replaced, the gun seems to be ok and the electronics should also be top (If there are no bugs).

Russia could offer modern ERA, maybe modern ammunition (Is Malaysia happy with the ammo they aquired?).
I don't expect the russians to be able to upgrade the suspension very much.

 

[qwerty223]

Btw, funny thing - at the last arms exhibitions Russia made a proposal to upgrade Malaysian PT-91M. Reportedly, malaysians said they'll seriosly consider it , and are also quite discontent with all these delays and bugs in PT-91M.
Seems Poland didnt had a trully ready PT-91M for production, and needed to develop and aquire some components in process after contract signed.

Can you share us a link?

What could russia offer as an upgrade?
The weaker basic armor cannot be replaced, the gun seems to be ok and the electronics should also be top (If there are no bugs).

Russia could offer modern ERA, maybe modern ammunition (Is Malaysia happy with the ammo they aquired?).
I don't expect the russians to be able to upgrade the suspension very much.

Regarding the suspension, I recall a video, a speeding T-90 jumped, fire a round short after it landed, and hit the given target. I think this is a quite famous video. I remembered i saw it in Militaryphoto, and other sites...

 

[eckherl]

Btw, funny thing - at the last arms exhibitions Russia made a proposal to upgrade Malaysian PT-91M. Reportedly, malaysians said they'll seriosly consider it , and are also quite discontent with all these delays and bugs in PT-91M.
Seems Poland didnt had a trully ready PT-91M for production, and needed to develop and aquire some components in process after contract signed.

Are you sure that you didnt mean Ukraine, they have more experience working with Poland inregards to the PT-91 series. Please list the short comings that were not identified prior to the sale that has them scrambling for help, these vehicles are still under a service agreement that Poland is obligated to fulfill.

 

[Pro'forma]

What could russia offer as an upgrade?
The weaker basic armor cannot be replaced, the gun seems to be ok and the electronics should also be top (If there are no bugs).

Russia could offer modern ERA, maybe modern ammunition (Is Malaysia happy with the ammo they aquired?).
I don't expect the russians to be able to upgrade the suspension very much.

Ammo aquired; must conclude happiness with equal peace.

 

[Pro'forma]

Btw, funny thing - at the last arms exhibitions Russia made a proposal to upgrade Malaysian PT-91M. Reportedly, malaysians said they'll seriosly consider it , and are also quite discontent with all these delays and bugs in PT-91M.
Seems Poland didnt had a trully ready PT-91M for production, and needed to develop and aquire some components in process after contract signed.

You cannot consider this year is no delays. Funny, conciliate their
delays and bugs, seriosly. Inflatios are slowing low 2%.
Are their proposlas right-on-time ?

 

[Awang se]

i would go for the ammo first. get the latest tank rounds. probably a DU penetrator. I wonder how good the protection on PT91M as compared to russian T-90. both are build on top of T-72 design. maybe we can get that clam shell ERA fix on. they say it has increase effectiveness against KE penetrator, how much i dont know.

 

[eckherl]

i would go for the ammo first. get the latest tank rounds. probably a DU penetrator. I wonder how good the protection on PT91M as compared to russian T-90. both are build on top of T-72 design. maybe we can get that clam shell ERA fix on. they say it has increase effectiveness against KE penetrator, how much i dont know.

What type of ammunition are they using now for the PT-91.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[nevidimka]

Btw, funny thing - at the last arms exhibitions Russia made a proposal to upgrade Malaysian PT-91M. Reportedly, malaysians said they'll seriosly consider it , and are also quite discontent with all these delays and bugs in PT-91M.
Seems Poland didnt had a trully ready PT-91M for production, and needed to develop and aquire some components in process after contract signed.

This just shows how much the MAF makes stupid decision due to the corrupted practises of the politicians. They should have gone with the T90 straight from RUssia.

 

[eckherl]

Btw, funny thing - at the last arms exhibitions Russia made a proposal to upgrade Malaysian PT-91M. Reportedly, malaysians said they'll seriosly consider it , and are also quite discontent with all these delays and bugs in PT-91M.
Seems Poland didnt had a trully ready PT-91M for production, and needed to develop and aquire some components in process after contract signed.

This just shows how much the MAF makes stupid decision due to the corrupted practises of the politicians. They should have gone with the T90 straight from RUssia.

Why T-90 - was it a government decision to go with any type of T series MBT that had some modernization. They could of most likely have gone with any MBT that they wanted. Yes, the T-90 is advanced but you cannot state that the PT-91 cannot get the job done in that region in which it is operating in. All these statements that they are having nothing but problems with the Twardy is nothing more but pure speculation, I highly doubt that Malaysia went running for assistance from Russia.

 

[Awang se]

Why T-90 - was it a government decision to go with any type of T series MBT that had some modernization. They could of most likely have gone with any MBT that they wanted. Yes, the T-90 is advanced but you cannot state that the PT-91 cannot get the job done in that region in which it is operating in. All these statements that they are having nothing but problems with the Twardy is nothing more but pure speculation, I highly doubt that Malaysia went running for assistance from Russia.

I wouldn't say that Malaysia running for assistance from Russia because there's problem. i say malaysia running for assistance from russia in case there's problem. Since the major maintainance problems surroundings the MIGs several years ago, and a little one involving RF-5E tigereye, MAF have been looking at diversifying their sources for spare parts.

 

[kaybee]

Northern Malaysian peninsular is protected by the Army's 3rd Division, which is the best equipped Division of the Malaysian army except for it's lack of MBT's.

3rd Div is protecting the southern part of the peninsular. North is protected by 2nd Div. The only armored regiments up north are the 3 KAD and 19 RAMD Mech based in Sungai Petani.