Malaysian Army/Land forces discussions

[Pro'forma]

I'm sorry if my statement cause such a furor. i based my statement on several info that i gather.

The muzzle speed of the 125mm 2A46M is higher compare to the 105mm guns of the M60 and M48. the larger calibre also means it can fire a larger and heavier APFSDS. so in a direct sense, it can penetrate the armor of the M60 at a longer range, plus, the improve SAGEM fire control system. and presumably the proper tank rounds (not old or obsolete like the Iraqi T-72 carry).

PT-91 are not Iraqi T-72. the protection have been improved by the installation of ERAWA tiles. of course, were not facing an Abrams, Leos Or Challengers in the RTA inventories, so the field are pretty level here. i believe the M60 are equal in terms of armor to the T-72 and from the pictures i see, RTA did not employ any extra protection, like ERA for example.

i'm also curious about the logistical capability of the Thai Military. how well can they sustain their equipments operational level at one time. it's useless to have 300 tanks when you only have a maintainance capability for only 100.

of course, this is my view. any other suggestion on the contrary is welcome. and please don't sparred so aggresively, i feel kind of guilty you know.

I haven't seen statements, no worry. Logistical capability only preparing to
crammer. Thai experts are welcome. Giving extra "freshness" to old world.
Not aggression. To guilty I believe you talk with holy man, not me.

 

[kickaflow]

as for the army, more L115 from BAE System, 96 APCs BTR-3E1 from Ukraine (LAV preferred), 15,000 5.56mm TAVOR TAR21 and 992 5.56mm NEGEV both from israel, and 5,745 40mm rocket-propelled anti-armour Type69 (PG-7).

 

[aneep]

dude,
keep on topic pls,
some ppl here know a bit but act like they know everything
pls be mature when having a discussion

 

[kickaflow]

i dont know much about malasia forces but i like to know it, who act like they know a lot? get your number out and let see!!!

 

[kickaflow]

errr im not even close to expert or anything, i know very little compare to you all, but i'd like to see your point, that's all. sorry about the impolite

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

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[DavidDCM]

Found this remark about the Thai tank fleet:

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thaitankyu5.png

I wonder that the Stingray seems to be more or less out of service

It would be interesting to know where exactly in Thailand the tank bataillons are based. I could imagine that the majority of them might be more in the north, to protect the borders with Laos, Burma and Cambodia (which are politically more unstable than Malaysia), and to guard the "golden triangle" opium region. I wonder how many tanks Thailand could send to the Malaysian border in short time, if the shit really hit the fan.

The Malaysian tankbatallion (11th KAD) with it's PT-91M will be stationed in Gemas, Negeri Sembilan, therefore in the southern center of the Malaysian peninsula. They would surely need a couple of days at least to reach the Thai border. The PT-91M's base is clearly situated towards Singapore, not Thailand.

 

[eckherl]

Found this remark about the Thai tank fleet:

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thaitankyu5.png

I wonder that the Stingray seems to be more or less out of service

It would be interesting to know where exactly in Thailand the tank bataillons are based. I could imagine that the majority of them might be more in the north, to protect the borders with Laos, Burma and Cambodia (which are politically more unstable than Malaysia), and to guard the "golden triangle" opium region. I wonder how many tanks Thailand could send to the Malaysian border in short time, if the shit really hit the fan.

The Malaysian tankbatallion (11th KAD) with it's PT-91M will be stationed in Gemas, Negeri Sembilan, therefore in the southern center of the Malaysian peninsula. They would surely need a couple of days at least to reach the Thai border. The PT-91M's base is clearly situated towards Singapore, not Thailand.

Is it out of service or is it with their marines who operate them. They are possibly looking at the Stingray 2 and bringing up the original batch to that upgrade standard which consist of add on armor and even better FCS.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

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[eckherl]

Not with the Marines. With the army. The Stingrays had to be repaired in 1997 due to crack in the hulls. I would say most of the Stingrays are back with the army by now. The website showing the serviceability is likely to be using very old data.

An example of an exercise in 2005 showing 6 Cav Bn.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55312

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69188

Actually, the number of M60s and M48s for the RTA should be as per below ie 125 M60A3, 53 M60A1 and 75 M48A5s.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun1997/m06111997_m098-97.html

The 107 excess was not taken up (based on UN reporting).

The Thai M60s should be equipped with TTS as per 1994 notification to congress.

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/no...ha&descin=&date1in=1992&date2in=2000&typein=%

I figured someone had them, do you know where the cracks were surfacing up at on the hulls. Also interesting that they still have/use 105mm Heat rounds with brass casings as one of the photos show.

 

[qwerty223]

The Malaysian tankbatallion (11th KAD) with it's PT-91M will be stationed in Gemas, Negeri Sembilan, therefore in the southern center of the Malaysian peninsula. They would surely need a couple of days at least to reach the Thai border. The PT-91M's base is clearly situated towards Singapore, not Thailand.

Hard to predict from the base position. Military bases in peninsular Malaysia set buffer from both north and south. And may not be the best, but i m proud that we have good established highway system. If were to compete, ATM would have a good chance to reach border before their opponent.

 

[Pro'forma]

Hard to predict from the base position. Military bases in peninsular Malaysia set buffer from both north and south. And may not be the best, but i m proud that we have good established highway system. If were to compete, ATM would have a good chance to reach border before their opponent.

Right, you could call it from the Paleolithic time. You do understand,
when the highway wasn't on the map.

 

[DavidDCM]

Paleolithic or not, teleport technology isn’t invented yet, so a complete tank battalion with full equipment, support and maintenance wont pop up at the battle front out of nowhere. It’s about 400 Km beeline from Gemas to the Malaysian/Thai-Border. I guess the only way Malaysia can transport the tanks over such distances is by train, for they don’t have enough trucks for every single tank and driving by themselves is not only very, very slow (a tank convoy can be happy if he reaches an average speed of 20 Km/h) but also very fatiguing for the tanks themselves (tanks are not designed to be long-distance runners). Additionally to the tanks themselves and their crews, everything else has to be transported there, too. Ammo, fuel, spare parts, headquarters staff etc. It’s a more than tough job for the logistics guys to do this in less then a week, even more so in a war-scenario.

 

[Awang se]

For me, the best tactics in this regard will be to trade grounds and absord the attack as deep as possible, avoid head-onn battle early on and deny the advancing enemy a chance for a decisive engagement in their favor. at the same time, using highly mobile hit and run tactics, continuosly harassing enemy logistic tail. Either the enemy will slow down their attack to cope up with reduce logistics (as a result of the attacks) or they'll outrun their logistics. once this happen, i will release the main force with an objective to surround and cutoff the enemy deep inside our territory.

 

[Awang se]

There is no comparison with the Thais actually. 120-180 M60s + 100+ M48s still outnumbers 48 PT-91 anyday. This doesn't take into account scorpions, stingrays etc in Thai inventory.

you don't understand. 48 is just the start. more is coming.

 

[Tebuan]

Hard to predict from the base position. Military bases in peninsular Malaysia set buffer from both north and south. And may not be the best, but i m proud that we have good established highway system. If were to compete, ATM would have a good chance to reach border before their opponent.

In times of war I dont think it will be an exactly a wise move to transport the armor assets on open highways. That will be easiest thing to do but don't you think it will leave them exposed for harrassment and destruction by enemy air-assets. Unless we have achieved complete air-superiority I dont any commander would risk such a move.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

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[gary1910]

Not with the Marines. With the army. The Stingrays had to be repaired in 1997 due to crack in the hulls. I would say most of the Stingrays are back with the army by now. The website showing the serviceability is likely to be using very old data.

An example of an exercise in 2005 showing 6 Cav Bn.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55312

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69188

Actually, the number of M60s and M48s for the RTA should be as per below ie 125 M60A3, 53 M60A1 and 75 M48A5s.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun1997/m06111997_m098-97.html

The 107 excess was not taken up (based on UN reporting).

The Thai M60s should be equipped with TTS as per 1994 notification to congress.

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/no...ha&descin=&date1in=1992&date2in=2000&typein=%

I believe Thai Marines bought about 15 Ascod LT 105 light tanks.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

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[paskal]

If I was one of your teachers at the Royal Military College I'd be giving you very low marks right now. You need - desperately need - to read more, a lot more. And serious historical analyses, not superficial popularised accounts.

Yes, the Germans were inadequately prepared for the Russian winter (note that they did prepare for it, stockpiling winter clothing, etc, but not well enough). But it was not the biggest reason they lost. Their poor preparation cost them in the winter of 1941-42, but there were three more winters before they were defeated, & for the whole of two of them, they were fighting deep inside the USSR. By the time the winter of 1942-43 arrived, the Germans had improved their preparedness for the conditions.

They lost because they were outgunned & outnumbered, & this is as true of the Eastern Front as in the west & the Mediterranean. Except perhaps for a brief period in late 1941 when Soviet losses had been so immense that their original 5 or 6 to 1 numerical advantage in tanks, & superiority in numbers of men, had been lost, the Red Army always had more tanks, more guns - more everything - than the Germans.

Also, it was not a case of "Germans advance in summer, Russians counter-attack in winter". Go & read up. The Germans also attacked in winter, & the Russians in summer.

BTW, as I've told you already, the T-34 was in service from the start of the war (though most Soviet tanks in 1941 were older models), it was not introduced later. The Germans were using captured T-34s in the summer of 1941. Also, it did not remain superior. The Pzkw IV was upgunned & uparmoured to be able to fight it on equal terms (the German 75mm KwK 40 L/48 gun fitted to late model Pzkw IV outmatched the 76.2mm gun of the T-34), & then the Germans built the Tiger & Panther. When the Panther was introduced, it was clearly superior to the T-34.

Thats explain my low marks in history
But ive read up again about the soviet-german battle.
It is stated that the main reason that the germans lost was because of the cold season.
The russians were of course more in number but they also used a lot of tactics that crushed the german army.
The russians also believe in a spirit in winter that protects russia from advancing enemy.The russians claim in the old age that the barbarians there once nearly reach the middle of russia but the winter killed them all.
Im not as good as you in history but im quite sure about this.

[Peace]