Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD

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StingrayOZ said:
T I would get a cold shiver if someone thought they could turn up with lonely Choules and be okay, except as a basic, flag waving/basic police exercise. Heck the risk of mechanical or electrical failure alone means thats a bad idea to operate that way.
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I'd be very angry if I purchased a car that unreliable, let alone a defence asset. Is this something that happens often? I have to plead ignorance, I'm more a foreign policy guy and less a defence spec person (specialist? Dare I say nerd, heh?). Part of the reason I I'm on this site is to make good that ignorance.

Anyhoo, went off on a bit of a sidetrack there, I'm somewhat interested in the MOOTW potential of these ships. It seems to be substantial.
 
Lt. Fred said:
I'd be very angry if I purchased a car that unreliable, let alone a defence asset. Is this something that happens often? I have to plead ignorance, I'm more a foreign policy guy and less a defence spec person (specialist? Dare I say nerd, heh?). Part of the reason I I'm on this site is to make good that ignorance.

Anyhoo, went off on a bit of a sidetrack there, I'm somewhat interested in the MOOTW potential of these ships. It seems to be substantial.
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Time will tell if we got thing right with Choules regarding her transformer problems, I'd say the RAN will have come to terms with the proposion system just like they will have to do the same with the Canberras (LHD)

We have been getting a lot of OJT in regards to MOOTW or HADR both the new assets will shine in this regards with their ability to either move stores and equipment via helicopter or landing craft. HADR is only a secondary role on why the goverment at the time ordered the largest vessels in the history of the RAN.

HMAS Melboure (R21) was also used like this in 74 for cyclone Tracy and I would expect other times as well in the south pacfic, would have been even more interesting to see if they had both Melbourne and Sydney for use as a commando carrier filled with helicopters, it would not have been very efficant with out the well dock but as we saw with Sydney as a troop ship during Vietnam could move a lot of men and matrial.
 
ASSAIL said:
I'm struggling to see the relevance of your post, this is a defence forum, not a political soapbox.
You have simply illustrated why your country is struggling with its national debt which has nothing to do with the LHD's.
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I dont want to extend too much. Spanish public deficit in 2012 is low, 6.7 % gdp, and public debt is low +-80 % gdp. The only that is wrong here are economic rating companies, wrong bank balance rules, media confusing people, and with bad intentions. Anyway Spanish economy is strong.
 
seatmarbella said:
I dont want to extend too much. Spanish public deficit in 2012 is low, 6.7 % gdp, and public debt is low +-80 % gdp. The only that is wrong here are economic rating companies, wrong bank balance rules, media confusing people, and with bad intentions. Anyway Spanish economy is strong.
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Este foro no es para decir esas cosas, aqui se habla de cosas serias sobre temas militares, si quieres hablar de la economia española habre un post en la seccion apropiada, si no tu tiempo aqui sera corto.

Apologies in advance for not using english.
 
Jhom said:
Este foro no es para decir esas cosas, aqui se habla de cosas serias sobre temas militares, si quieres hablar de la economia española habre un post en la seccion apropiada, si no tu tiempo aqui sera corto.

Apologies in advance for not using english.
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It is quite alright. Your efforts and pictures are indeed appreciated.
-Preceptor
 
Lt. Fred said:
I'd be very angry if I purchased a car that unreliable, let alone a defence asset. Is this something that happens often? I have to plead ignorance, I'm more a foreign policy guy and less a defence spec person (specialist? Dare I say nerd, heh?). Part of the reason I I'm on this site is to make good that ignorance.

Anyhoo, went off on a bit of a sidetrack there, I'm somewhat interested in the MOOTW potential of these ships. It seems to be substantial.
Click to expand...

The electrical thing is just what happens. Until you go proving your new shiny toy, you really don't know what sort of issues may crop up. Even with proven kit, you need a plan to handle issues like things breaking, or needing repairs. How many ships and aircraft have issues with life expectancy and structural cracking? Its fairly common and can be managed. It just depends if they are long term and if they inhibit operational capability.

The LHD have really significant capabilities in and out of war. Across all the services. They are going to be the asset Australian defence capability is going to rely on as our region has such few suitable facilities even for commercial operations in good weather. I can see Australia really having a big amphibious focus after acquiring them, and more significantly after using them.

I notice the navy quoting over 1100 embarkedLINK and the intention to use both together to deploy over 2000 LINK.
So it looks like Australia is going to use them very differently than Spain intends to. We want USMC style LHD capabilities, while Spain is more after more conventional style capabilities that come from operation one ship.
 
StingrayOZ said:
So it looks like Australia is going to use them very differently than Spain intends to. We want USMC style LHD capabilities, while Spain is more after more conventional style capabilities that come from operation one ship.
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If this is to be the case, then we need a third. The government, and more importantly the RAN, can't afford to have a repeat of the Kanimbla/Manoora situation, where they were both worked so hard that they died together.
 
Jhom said:
Este foro no es para decir esas cosas, aqui se habla de cosas serias sobre temas militares, si quieres hablar de la economia española habre un post en la seccion apropiada, si no tu tiempo aqui sera corto.

Apologies in advance for not using english.
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The economy of a country is directed related with the defence expenditure of a country, it is the cause of amount of defence expenditure. So general auxiliar economic info, that are not exceeding in big paragraphs, just general info is related to any defence topic. There is another data generally very used in forums and it is the % of gdp that goes to defence absolutely related to public deficit and fiscal pressure from public debt.

Anyway, how many different small subtopics appear constantly in any thread, related in one way or another. And in my case my economic mentions are replies to previous economic mentions by other, so also there is a margin of text to reply, it is a right.

The moderators normally comment things or warn people before banning anyone.
 
Ozymandias said:
http://i.imgur.com/t28nCTQ.jpg

Looks like a radar already sitting on the forward mast. Does anyone know how much of the combat system has been installed yet? That will be the tricky part, adding the non-spanish kit to the spanish hull.
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Not really tricky at all, the RAN is pretty familiar with the 9LV and associated equipment, especially with the superstructure being built here and having Australian specific modifications to the layout of it
 
aussienscale said:
Not really tricky at all, the RAN is pretty familiar with the 9LV and associated equipment, especially with the superstructure being built here and having Australian specific modifications to the layout of it
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Never underestimate what can be lost in translation. What about all those problems with the AWD blocks at Williamstown a few years ago? I remember BAE blamed the spanish drawings. There could be a few issues trying to weld things down which neither Navantia or BAE have done before.
 
seatmarbella said:
The economy of a country is directed related with the defence expenditure of a country, it is the cause of amount of defence expenditure. So general auxiliar economic info, that are not exceeding in big paragraphs, just general info is related to any defence topic. There is another data generally very used in forums and it is the % of gdp that goes to defence absolutely related to public deficit and fiscal pressure from public debt.

Anyway, how many different small subtopics appear constantly in any thread, related in one way or another. And in my case my economic mentions are replies to previous economic mentions by other, so also there is a margin of text to reply, it is a right.

The moderators normally comment things or warn people before banning anyone.
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Well, as a moderator can we consider the matter done with from this point on, please? If you two wish to privately discuss Spain's economy, feel free, but for the purposes of this thread getting back on topic would be appreciated. Cheers mate.
 
Ozymandias said:
exactly, and there could easily be similar problems with canberra
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Totally missinterpreted you, my fault.

How could that be? the task in hand is easier than the AWDs, but they can always fall into the easiest of mistakes, using inches instead of centimeters :P
 
Jhom said:
Totally missinterpreted you, my fault.

How could that be? the task in hand is easier than the AWDs, but they can always fall into the easiest of mistakes, using inches instead of centimeters :P
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The issue was an inexperienced work force, recruited and trained at the last minute to do one of the most complex parts of the job following the original contractor being eliminated due to unforeseen financial issues. Bar are now out performing other contractors now their team is up to speed. The blame for the issues encountered can be laid firmly at the feet of successive Australian governments and their inconsistent procurement.
 
AegisFC said:
I love hearing stories like this. My first destroyer had 55 cents placed under the mast as well as the namesakes rank pins.
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Sorry to post in the open thread, but it's not letting me PM you (I'm guessing I can't as a private still). My second ship was LASSEN where I was the FCO from 2008-2010, so I've gotten the fun times at Dahlgren. You might run into some of my former FCs there, as well.
 
I saw this and it struck my interest re the Osprey. I'm wondering if our LHD can bounce 60,000lbs on the deck or would we need to mod a section of it?
The USMC has a good development plan for the v-22 kit and some of it may fit into our future CONOPS
UPDATE 1-Bell, Boeing to get order for 99 more V-22 Ospreys | Reuters
International interest in the new aircraft also remained high, Masiello said, noting that the U.S. government had provided briefings to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Italy, Brazil, Colombia, Singapore and Australia.
 
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