Javelin ATM on Modern Western Tank

[DoC_FouALieR]

Isn't Hellfire able to do both? Top and direct attack?

Yes, I believe... it depends on the selected flight profil when the missile is released.

But for the Javelin, since it uses an IRR seeker, is it possible to counter it by using IR decoys, or something like DIRCM?

 

[killbill2]

here's the T 72 video with the javelin kickin it's ass all over the place.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kJtrF9IY5EI&search=Javelin live fire



Gives you an idea of how even how a light anti tank system witha topa ttack flight path can kill a 4mil+ tank even with ERA.

 

[Waylander]

Woohooooo, there it is again.

 

[Grand Danois]

Woohooooo, there it is again.

It is a cool video. One simply can't have to much of it.

 

[Waylander]

It may look cool, but it is not really realistic. This tank was full of fuel and explosives.
If you look thhe movie picture by picture you can see that the explosion erupts in the middle of the tank before the missile hits it.

 

[Grand Danois]

It may look cool, but it is not really realistic. This tank was full of fuel and explosives.
If you look thhe movie picture by picture you can see that the explosion erupts in the middle of the tank before the missile hits it.

Hmmm. I think you're right... It's what gf0012-aust would call an assisted shot.

 

[Waylander]

Not even that.
If I put ammo and fuel into the storage parts of an MBT an see how it burns or throws his turret it is an assisted shot.
If I blow something up before the missile hits it is just fake.

 

[Grand Danois]

Not even that.
If I put ammo and fuel into the storage parts of an MBT an see how it burns or throws his turret it is an assisted shot.
If I blow something up before the missile hits it is just fake.

Live and learn.

 

[Waylander]

I don't get what you want to say.

 

[Grand Danois]

I don't get what you want to say.

I just learned something new. Is that clearer?

 

[Waylander]

Aaah, I thought you ment me with that.

 

[killbill2]

Still would kill it een without the fuel and explosives lol!! Even an M1A2 or CHallenger2 would be killed.

 

[Waylander]

That might be right.
But the main problem for ATGMs like the Javelin are modern active protection systems.
Many ATGMs are still slow enough to be intercepted not like modern tank rounds even with pop-up and top attacks

 

[killbill2]

That might be right.
But the main problem for ATGMs like the Javelin are modern active protection systems.
Many ATGMs are still slow enough to be intercepted not like modern tank rounds even with pop-up and top attacks

i doubt how effective those active protection systems are really.

 

[DoC_FouALieR]

Simply deploy IR-screening smoke with a smoke grenade discharger, and the missile is blind....

 

[.pt]

javelin

Just saw the video in the link that was provided, and also saw a promo video from bofors for their bill missile, and really, this video of javelin must be fake, not only because of the explosion, but because in the end the tank almost disapears!! a mockup of wood, or something? doubt that only that would remain of the tank, from earlier pictures of disabled/destroyed MBT i´ve seen elsewhere on this forum.
By active protection systems, what type are those? some kind of jammers? would depend on guidance system for missile, optical, laser, ir, wouldnt it?
And probably latest gen of missiles will have some kind of countermeasures, no?
One last question, what type of device indicates the missile, in this case the Bill, when it is in position on top of the hull of the tank? some kind of prox. fuse as in Anti aircraft missiles? because that sucker sure runs fast...
.pt

 

[Waylander]

Active systems are ERA, Kaktus, Shtora, etc.
Also IR-Fog like mentioned before.
Like ATGMs have been developed over the years ERA and others has been, too. It is not like they stopped development in the late '80s.
ERA might not yet be able to stop fast APFSDS rounds but ATGMs are much slower.

 

[killbill2]

The round consists of the Javelin missile and the ATK (Alliant Techsystems) Launch Tube Assembly. The range of the missile is 2,500m. Javelin is a fire-and-forget missile with lock-on before launch and automatic self-guidance. The missile is equipped with an imaging infrared seeker which is based on a cadmium mercury telluride (CdHgTe) 64 x 64 staring focal plane array in the 8 to 12 micron waveband. BAE Systems Avionics is providing the infrared seekers for the British Army's missiles. The tandem warhead is fitted with two shaped charges: a precursor warhead to initiate explosive reactive armour and a main warhead to penetrate base armour. The propulsion system is a two-stage solid propellant design which provides a minimum smoke soft launch.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/

It hasa tandem charge to beat ERA so im not worried about era. Obscurants are difficult unless of course you modify it to have MMW radar.

 

[Waylander]

I know that tandem warheads increased the capabilities of ATGMs and RPGs against ERA systems but the russians say that their newest ERA versions are able to counter this threat because they use some kind of double system.
It is not easy to say that ATGMs are going to fullfill their job against the most modern active protection systems. Too much data is classified.

 

[killbill2]

I know that tandem warheads increased the capabilities of ATGMs and RPGs against ERA systems but the russians say that their newest ERA versions are able to counter this threat because they use some kind of double system.
It is not easy to say that ATGMs are going to fullfill their job against the most modern active protection systems. Too much data is classified.

Well wouldn't the main warhead whichc an penetrate 800mm of tank armor get through the second layer and the thinly armored top???
All ERA does is disrupt the jet and reduce penetration.