Javelin ATM on Modern Western Tank

[brian00]

Theres quite a common video on the net of a javelin completely ripping a part a t72, the turrent flies tens of metres up in the air.

How do you think a challenger 2, merkava or abrams would stand up against this missile? surely they would fare little better...

 

[gf0012-aust]

Theres quite a common video on the net of a javelin completely ripping a part a t72, the turrent flies tens of metres up in the air.

How do you think a challenger 2, merkava or abrams would stand up against this missile? surely they would fare little better...

I've seen that video and it was discussed in here some years ago. It was commonly accepted that it was whats referred to as "an assisted shot".

An assisted shot is when the target platform is set up with fuel vapour, open ports, loose mounts etc so that the effect is more dramatic.

Thats not to say that the end result would have been just as "dead" - just that the effects were more spectacular than normal.

I think any modern tank is not going to be too happy about a top down attack if its on its own and with no supporting air and missile defence.

Thats why arty is king of the battlefield 10 times the range and ballistic arcs are always going to hurt something BVR and only LOS capable.

 

[webmaster]

Here is the Video:

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/showphoto.php/photo/14982/cat/3682

Here is the Thread:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645

Here is the Search:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/search.php



Enjoy!

 

[scraw]

Cheers gf (and webmaster), I hadn't seen the vid of the SASR using the javelin, only pics.

You get the impression not much would be left of that truck once the smoke cleared

 

[Aussie Digger]

I remember seeing SASR conduct a live fire with Javelin in Iraq. The result was pretty much the same as the "famous" (or is that in-famous?) Javelin video floating around.

I seriously doubt SASR set up an "assisted" shot.

What I think is a possibility is the closeness of the camera. Everyone I suppose has seen the slightly grainy TOW missile video approaching the "truck" with the inspiring music playing along and that is not very different. I've seen HEDP Charlie G impacts and they throw up quite an amount of dust etc when they hit.

I'm not saying it's not assisted, but there "could" be another explanation for it...

 

[gf0012-aust]

I remember seeing SASR conduct a live fire with Javelin in Iraq. The result was pretty much the same as the "famous" (or is that in-famous?) Javelin video floating around.

I seriously doubt SASR set up an "assisted" shot.

What I think is a possibility is the closeness of the camera. Everyone I suppose has seen the slightly grainy TOW missile video approaching the "truck" with the inspiring music playing along and that is not very different. I've seen HEDP Charlie G impacts and they throw up quite an amount of dust etc when they hit.

I'm not saying it's not assisted, but there "could" be another explanation for it...

The shoot I'm thinking of was done on the Salisbury Range - and I don't recall it having SAS or SASR shooters..

 

[Pursuit Curve]

If I may take the topic in a different direction, What are the current counter measures reagarding top attack missiles? I understand that there is a hard kill system in Russia and a hard kill system being developed in the US? Does anyone here think that such a system could stop a Top Attack TOW or Javelin type system?

 

[Waylander]

The Swedish Strv. 122 has improved passive top armor but I don't know if it is thick enough.

 

[Big-E]

If I may take the topic in a different direction, What are the current counter measures reagarding top attack missiles? I understand that there is a hard kill system in Russia and a hard kill system being developed in the US? Does anyone here think that such a system could stop a Top Attack TOW or Javelin type system?

Have you seen Trophy?

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Have you seen Trophy?

I've talked with GF about this in PM before, but I still have my doubts about active defence systems like Arena or TROPHY. They may be able to intercept incoming anti-tank rounds, but could also pepper the friendlies nearby with shrapnels. Until I can get a clear idea of how the system avoids collateral damage, it's not a very good solution in my mind.

 

[Big-E]

I've talked with GF about this in PM before, but I still have my doubts about active defence systems like Arena or TROPHY. They may be able to intercept incoming anti-tank rounds, but could also pepper the friendlies nearby with shrapnels. Until I can get a clear idea of how the system avoids collateral damage, it's not a very good solution in my mind.

It has to be better than ERA AFA collateral damage.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

It has to be better than ERA AFA collateral damage.

TROPHY uses a shotgun-like blast to disable warheads, while Arena ejects an explosive charge and throws a volley of fragments downward. Doesn't sound that much better does it?

 

[Big-E]

TROPHY uses a shotgun-like blast to disable warheads, while Arena ejects an explosive charge and throws a volley of fragments downward. Doesn't sound that much better does it?

How does ERA explode downward? It has to explode in the direction of the blast does it not?

 

[Pathfinder-X]

How does ERA explode downward? It has to explode in the direction of the blast does it not?

Arena is not a type of ERA. It's an active defence system developed by Russians which is fitted on their T-90s. It launches an charge in the direction of the incoming round. The charge explodes in air and sends hundreds of small shrapnels downward.

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/EQP/arena_operation.gif

 

[Aussie Digger]

The shoot I'm thinking of was done on the Salisbury Range - and I don't recall it having SAS or SASR shooters..

There's a video floating around of SASR operators doing a range shoot in Iraq in 2003 with Javelin. They fired on an old truck and the result is virtually as impressive as the "famous" video of the missile hitting the T-72.

I'll try and find it again...

 

[RubiconNZ]

We love the Javelin

There's a video floating around of SASR operators doing a range shoot in Iraq in 2003 with Javelin. They fired on an old truck and the result is virtually as impressive as the "famous" video of the missile hitting the T-72.

I'll try and find it again...

I remember that, it was sweet, thats was during the "evaluation" period was it not?

 

[rattmuff]

The Swedish Strv. 122 has improved passive top armor but I don't know if it is thick enough.

Don't know the armors thickness but FMV(swedish defence material administration) says the reinforced front and top armor is twise as good, compared to L2A4 (strv. 121).

It's obvious that a tank ready for combat don't blow up.

 

[scraw]

Don't know the armors thickness but FMV(swedish defence material administration) says the reinforced front and top armor is twise as good, compared to L2A4 (strv. 121).

It's obvious that a tank ready for combat don't blow up.

I would posit that many both have and do.... just depends what lands on them

 

[killbill2]

i don't think any tank can take on a javelin. Here's two reasons

1.) tandem warheads: even with ERA the tandem charge will go through. the first charge detonates the ERA and the second charge epentrates the main armor.
2.) It's a top attack munition. the top of the tank has very light armor otherwise it's extremely bad for their center of gravity.The main warhead peentrates 800mm and i think the first charge is somewhat around 100mm.

It's a little known fact that hellfire is also a top attack missile like the javelin.

 

[Waylander]

Isn't Hellfire able to do both? Top and direct attack?