J-10 In PAF Cammo!

[Oqaab]

It even outclassed mirage 2000-5 in a dogfight.

Only dogfight I can recall between the two platforms was between Greek Mirage 2000s (Not 2000-5s even) and Turkish F-16s over International waters near Cyprus in 1996. One Turkish F-16 was shot down in which the pilot, Neil Erdogan, lost his life. And the battle was a dogfight and not a BVR scenario.

In simulated air combat between the F-16 and the Mirage 2000-5 conducted by the PAF on numerous occasions, the technologically inferior F-16A defeated the Mirage 2000-5 on every occasion.

Link = http://www.pakaviation.com/PVA/Aero_News/Item/Aviation_News_199908160.html

 

[JTF-2 HOPE]

Cool really looks great, but it is not to
clear. I think it would do much better if they add
abit of background and clear it up.

Good job anyway.

 

[elkaboingo]

You guys are maybe forgetting my post in the Aviation section!
Remember two pronged theory I got that from a highly credible source(right 90%+ usually)
Oh and from the same source the Falcon given to China(that Falcon was written off when a wild Warthog ran onto the runway at SAFB and sheared off the front landing gear.It was perfectly ok otherwise) was used in the development of both the JF-17 and the Lavi(sic).So PAF has been involved and will take delivery of probably 100+J-10s.But not untill the problems with the engine(WS-10) have been rectified.

yes this DID happen, i read about it in a report done by a former officer.
j-10 is a hodge podge of all kinds of designs. f-16, lavi and even a some mig design features.

 

[shamsi]

I'd suggest that the Chinese were using it for aggressor comparisons. The F16 was considered to be the best single engine fighter of its day. Maybe this is why you guys are having probs getting more american aircraft - they don't like you giving them to the chinese for "evaluation"...

They also may have been doing flyoffs between the F16 and the Lavi to see what major flight characteristics were affected by the revised canted wings and canards.

F-16s were stopped due to Pakistan modifying them and planning to use them for Nuke delivery. Hence when "Toss Drop" pictures came in from the eyes in the sky, F-16s were essentially blocked. This also accelerated Pakistan's efforts for SSMs. So, perhaps, you can thank Larry pressler for Pakistan's SSMs.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Presslers response is a classic example of Newtons second law at work.

 

[Red aRRow]

Presslers response is a classic example of Newtons second law at work.

So true.

 

[Revival_786]

Those pics are beautiful

 

[adsH]

hey does any one know what it is made out of (the airframe)please don't tell me its aluminum!!. i would think its possible its made out of the same material as that JF-17(aluminum). but then i can't stop pondering what If they employed some sort of composite in the construction. it looks like a nice light weight craft and then the israelis played a part in the development. And about people saying the craft won't be available to PAF becasue of american heavy presence well!!.it was practically built with the help of israelis so i don't see how the americans won't know about the airframe its abilities and its electronics. and about PAF not accepting any thing that has remotely any thing to with Israelis well i don't think PAF has the luxury to reject what litle they can get there hands onn!! (not being biased but only real) and plus, there may not be any official links between pakistan and israel but there were atleast number of direct and indirect exchanges between them in the 80's soviet wars!
THIS WILL BRING EVERY THING IN INFRONT I HOPE YOU GUYS HAVE READ THIS BOOK ITS A GOOD READ it details the upgrades provides by Israelis to the Pak army on the basic chinese t-59 tanks

http://www.politics-now.com/books/charliewilsonafghanistan.htm


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0CE1DE163EF936A15756C0A9659C8B63




BTW CHECK THIS SITE OUT ABOUT, I GUESS EVERY THING LOOKS GOOD
http://www.aeronautics.ru/

 

[gf0012-aust]

hey does any one know what it is made out of (the airframe)please don't tell me its aluminum!!. i would think its possible its made out of the same material as that JF-17(aluminum). but then i can't stop pondering what If they employed some sort of composite in the construction. it looks like a nice light weight craft and then the israelis played a part in the development. And about people saying the craft won't be available to PAF becasue of american heavy presence well!!.it was practically built with the help of israelis so i don't see how the americans won't know about the airframe its abilities and its electronics. and about PAF not accepting any thing that has remotely any thing to with Israelis well i don't think PAF has the luxury to reject what litle they can get there hands onn!! (not being biased but only real) and plus, there may not be any official links between pakistan and israel but there were atleast number of direct and indirect exchanges between them in the 80's soviet wars!
THIS WILL BRING EVERY THING IN INFRONT I HOPE YOU GUYS HAVE READ THIS BOOK ITS A GOOD READ it details the upgrades provides by Israelis to the Pak army on the basic chinese t-59 tanks

http://www.politics-now.com/books/charliewilsonafghanistan.htm


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0CE1DE163EF936A15756C0A9659C8B63




BTW CHECK THIS SITE OUT ABOUT, I GUESS EVERY THING LOOKS GOOD
http://www.aeronautics.ru/

Musharraf was keen on having a non-aggression pact with Israel in the late 90's (similar to Egypts relationship with Israel.) Musharraf was quite keen on getting access to Israeli expertise in military equipment, so it's highly possible that some tech transfer was drip fed through in this period.

 

[adsH]

hey does any one know what it is made out of (the airframe)please don't tell me its aluminum!!. i would think its possible its made out of the same material as that JF-17(aluminum). but then i can't stop pondering what If they employed some sort of composite in the construction. it looks like a nice light weight craft and then the israelis played a part in the development. And about people saying the craft won't be available to PAF becasue of american heavy presence well!!.it was practically built with the help of israelis so i don't see how the americans won't know about the airframe its abilities and its electronics. and about PAF not accepting any thing that has remotely any thing to with Israelis well i don't think PAF has the luxury to reject what litle they can get there hands onn!! (not being biased but only real) and plus, there may not be any official links between pakistan and israel but there were atleast number of direct and indirect exchanges between them in the 80's soviet wars!
THIS WILL BRING EVERY THING IN INFRONT I HOPE YOU GUYS HAVE READ THIS BOOK ITS A GOOD READ it details the upgrades provides by Israelis to the Pak army on the basic chinese t-59 tanks

http://www.politics-now.com/books/charliewilsonafghanistan.htm


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0CE1DE163EF936A15756C0A9659C8B63




BTW CHECK THIS SITE OUT ABOUT, I GUESS EVERY THING LOOKS GOOD
http://www.aeronautics.ru/

Musharraf was keen on having a non-aggression pact with Israel in the late 90's (similar to Egypts relationship with Israel.) Musharraf was quite keen on getting access to Israeli expertise in military equipment, so it's highly possible that some tech transfer was drip fed through in this period.

i am sure Musharaf wanted israelis to have an embassy in islamabad and a counslate in karachi but in the 90 he did not hold a position to even push this ahead(but he is pushing ahead now with an active punlic running poll which is constantly registering votes concering the acceptance of israel) i guess PAK Armed forces are more in sync with Turkey's Mandate being more secular so they can be the only properly developed powerfull institution in pakistan that can be called moderates.!! Musharaf will press aheadwith relations with Israel. he thinks that if the arab countries around israel can acknowledge its existence so why can't a nation thousands of miles away. good thinking i would say.

 

[gf0012-aust]

It's interesting to note that the division of how the Pakistani Govt deals with Israeli is divided amongts the military and the ISI. It has appeared to be that the military seeks recognition of Israeli and that the ISI are closer to the fundamentalist and non recognition camp.

Jordan and Israeli have made substantial gains in the last few years in trying to reach accomodations. Although in Jordans case, they were glad to be rid of the Palestinians themselves. People seem to forget that Jordan was one of the Arab States that was actively harassing its own Palestinians in the 80's and early 90's.

A benign relationship with Israel would also mean that Jordan can release itself from sheltering Palestinians - a cost burden which it has been increasingly complaining about.

Israel has made accomodations with Egypt, Jordan and Turkey. It actively participates in Turkish weapons programmes - in real terms Turkey is the most powerful Islamic nation in the region - and yet there is no animosity between the 2.

 

[adsH]

It's interesting to note that the division of how the Pakistani Govt deals with Israeli is divided amongts the military and the ISI. It has appeared to be that the military seeks recognition of Israeli and that the ISI are closer to the fundamentalist and non recognition camp.

Jordan and Israeli have made substantial gains in the last few years in trying to reach accomodations. Although in Jordans case, they were glad to be rid of the Palestinians themselves. People seem to forget that Jordan was one of the Arab States that was actively harassing its own Palestinians in the 80's and early 90's.

A benign relationship with Israel would also mean that Jordan can release itself from sheltering Palestinians - a cost burden which it has been increasingly complaining about.

Israel has made accomodations with Egypt, Jordan and Turkey. It actively participates in Turkish weapons programmes - in real terms Turkey is the most powerful Islamic nation in the region - and yet there is no animosity between the 2.

Exactly rite but the fact ISI is for non recognition of israel is not correct ISI inter service group is not full of fundamentlist as i see it it is a powerless institution of the armed forces now directly controlled by the Pres/Gen Pervez (he controls every thing ) ( a real dictatorship ) so the army may have deap divisions but they stick together and when divisions casue fracters those fractures are dealt with counter mechnanism i think you get the picture (i am sure this basic rule apply for such an institution)
think of ISI and ARMY as one institution and the rest of the democracy bearing institutions as the oponent who would be more powerfull. in a civilized modern nation the democracy would rule but in country that had almost defaulted where poverty is all time high and curruption endless (the fact, but its improveing now )
the army would certainly shine and stand out which sole purpose is the defence of the nation but now there are two dimensions defence from external atacks and defence from falling appart (regardless of what casues the colapse feuds or moentery collapse).

 

[Gangsternation]

Yes it looks very :eek

its so hot!

 

[adsH]

the ISI was directly involoved with Israeli and pentagon scientist in the development and deployment and use of the weapons that were being created for the battle feild in Afghanistan the fighter there lacked the expertise and aptitude to operate GPS (very new at that time ) systems (note GPS systems in the 80's) Mortars which were modified, apperntly to contain guidance systems lazer site designators to instruct American bombers to conduct bombing of certain targets in the region. these critically needed systems were designed and used primarilly to break the spirits of the Soviates to continuosly develop tech every 3 months and to show them that they could not have a possible defence. and it was all done by Pakistan ISI Pakistan Army Israeli Expertise US pentagon Scientists.

 

[ipfreak]

from what i read in chinese, j-10 uses more than 35% but less than 40% of composite materials. jf-17 doesn't use any. those new j-10a have been fit with ws-10. can't find any data in terms of performance.

it is said that both j-10 and jf-17 have great potential for upgreat, espcially air intake modification, new, more powerful engine.

the problem is that chinese are obsesssed with ambuguity, even with fc-1 and j-11 (su-27sk). every news was kina nebulous ...

but i doubt j-10 will be with paf any time soon though.

according to PLAAF's strategy of "high-end, mid-level and low-end", j-10 seem to fit in the mid-level position. jf-17 would be in the low-end, i guess. but fc-1 was clearly considered equal to f-16/a/b in terms of perforcemance (public statement from both paf and cac). then what about j-7e, j-8ii?

whatever j-10a could do, it defintely leave a lot of room for guessing and deabting ...

 

[adsH]

from what i read in chinese, j-10 uses more than 35% but less than 40% of composite materials. jf-17 doesn't use any. those new j-10a have been fit with ws-10. can't find any data in terms of performance.

it is said that both j-10 and jf-17 have great potential for upgreat, espcially air intake modification, new, more powerful engine.

the problem is that chinese are obsesssed with ambuguity, even with fc-1 and j-11 (su-27sk). every news was kina nebulous ...

but i doubt j-10 will be with paf any time soon though.

according to PLAAF's strategy of "high-end, mid-level and low-end", j-10 seem to fit in the mid-level position. jf-17 would be in the low-end, i guess. but fc-1 was clearly considered equal to f-16/a/b in terms of perforcemance (public statement from both paf and cac). then what about j-7e, j-8ii?

whatever j-10a could do, it defintely leave a lot of room for guessing and deabting ...

I don't think the chinese would bother putting Composite on the JF-17 but i think PAF will i think there Cockpit will be made out of it i don't know if they would make those composite cockpits in pak but i would think the Pakistanis would not put anything in PAF that is sub standard!!! believe it or not to PAF even in the given state it is still values its pilots more then its AC(any professional modern AF would)!!

 

[yasin_khan]

ZABARDAST :mrgreen

 

[P.A.F]

J-10 doesn't appeal to me man . i rather looks like a cone with a match box at the bottom of it. much prefer the gripens :smokingc:

 

[umair]

It's not the looks but the BANG which counts.And this baby will have a lot of bang to boot.Informal talks have already begun with thales regarding avionics and EW system customisation packages for the J-10s which would eventually be acquired by the PAF

 

[P.A.F]

True. but i'd much prefer it if it looks as good as it can bang.