Israeli Navy capability against coastal targets

[.pt]

missiles

Hmm and what about about cost?
Probably just a measure to reasssure civilians,because with so many rockets, not guided weapons, raining from lebanon, it will strain any missile system, such as patriot or Barak, to catch them all, and to what net effect,if only a morale boost. How many patriots and barak misile bateries and can the Israeklis field, without taking cover from other assets/airspace?
Also how much costs one of those crude rockets that hizbolah is firing and how much does it cost a single patriot or barak missile?
Also, probably Hizbollah have several hundred if not thousands of these rockets, and How many patriot/barak missiles are on Israeli inventory?
If not used, antimissile bateries can have a high Human casualty/infraestructure cost, if used they can have the effect of straining a defense budget and real capability to hit other more "valuable" targets such as, say a scud, even with conventional warheads, what to choose? Best defence for Israel, for in depth missile defense is to augment time and distance from lauch until target, and that means, invading and ocupying a strip of land in South Lebanon. Then, hizbollah cannot strike with their limited range rockets, at least the more common ones, we really dont know what hizbollah might have from Sirya or Iran. Just my opinion.
.pt

 

[Waylander]

"Navy probe: Faulty intelligence behind missile ship hit

The Israeli warship's crew had only twenty seconds in which to identify the threat and respond.

Amnon Barzilai 20 Jul 06 17:18

An Israel Navy investigation into last Friday's strike on the missile ship "Hanit" has found that the only fault was the lack of intelligence that Hizbullah had Iranian C-807 (sic!) missiles. The investigation also found that the actions of the Hanit's crew were based on information supplied by IDF Military Intelligence, and that there was no negligence in applying operational procedures.

The investigation found that at around 8 pm the Iranian-made missile was fired at the missile ship and exploded above it. The explosion and shock wave caused a fire and a hole in the vessel. Four crew were at first reported missing; they were later found dead.

According to the results of the investigation, in the absence of intelligence about anti-ship missiles, no such threat was defined in advance, and the missile ships' systems were deployed in standby mode and not in ready-to-fire mode.

Although the ship's defense systems spotted the incoming Iranian missile, the problem was cognitive. Because of the missile's speed and the short distance of the ship from shore (16 kilometers), and because the crew was unprepared for this kind of threat, the radar and electronic warfare systems operators had only 20 seconds to realize that they were under attack by an enemy missile.

The probe also found that a greater disaster was only narrowly avoided. Hizbullah fired two missiles at the ship. One missile hit and destroyed a Cambodian vessel with an Egyptian crew sailing a few dozen kilometers from the Israeli missile ship. The second missile hit the Israeli warship. Luckily, for unknown reasons, Hizbullah did not fire a third missile. The assessment is that a third missile could have sunk the Israeli ship."

Globes Israel business news, 20. Juli 2006

Ok, do we believe them or do we think that the missile defence failed?

 

[.pt]

Unless we have access to any hard data on tests from the defense system against similar threats, and data from the manufacturer, wich is all classified, we cannot make an informed decision, wether this Israeli claim has some truth in it or not. Or else some other " real life" experience that testifies to the defence system used efectiveness.As a principle, i would tend to trust more the Israelis, but of course, even they could withold the truth for their own interests, so who really knows?
Interesting conclusions on that article, first the warhead detonated above the ship, not inside or upon hitting the vessel, is this normal for this kind of weapon?
Another well put point, in my view, was that if the ship would be victim of a third missile it would probably sink. So if the Hizbullah or whomever shot those missiles, stayed long enough to lobe some more missiles, they could have achieved a major coup.That was a unique oportunity lost, i think.
.pt

 

[contedicavour]

I'm sure after this conflict is over Israel will be acquiring a better missile defense system near its northern border with Lebanon and Syria, and around the Gaza Strip. Its gonna be expensive, and the opposition will probably return to mortars and artillery. If Israel does invest in an air missile defense system, it would be best to intercept the incoming missiles over enemy held territory, otherwise the carnage will land on Israeli soil.

What about the technology of the Arrow anti-missile missile ? Does it have better range and intercept capability than the Navy's Barak ?
I assume not (or the system is not operational yet ?), if Israel wants to deploy Barak-equipped ships in the Haifa harbor, though I'm happy to get readers' perspective.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

Unless we have access to any hard data on tests from the defense system against similar threats, and data from the manufacturer, wich is all classified, we cannot make an informed decision, wether this Israeli claim has some truth in it or not. Or else some other " real life" experience that testifies to the defence system used efectiveness.As a principle, i would tend to trust more the Israelis, but of course, even they could withold the truth for their own interests, so who really knows?
Interesting conclusions on that article, first the warhead detonated above the ship, not inside or upon hitting the vessel, is this normal for this kind of weapon?
Another well put point, in my view, was that if the ship would be victim of a third missile it would probably sink. So if the Hizbullah or whomever shot those missiles, stayed long enough to lobe some more missiles, they could have achieved a major coup.That was a unique oportunity lost, i think.
.pt

Regarding the fact that the missile exploded above the ship, no it's not normal at all It actually could mean chaff and flare was sent up and diverted the missile from its trajectory. Guess what, the Saar V ECM operator may be did do its work in those 20 seconds !!

cheers

 

[Red aRRow]

There's fresh reports of another missile hit on a Sa'ar 4.5 stationed off of Tyre.

Hezbollah claims attack on warship, Israel denies TYRE, Lebanon, July 31, (AFP) - Hezbollah guerrillas fired a missile on an Israeli warship off the coast of the southern Lebanese port city of Tyre on Monday, police said, but the Israeli army denied the claim. It claimed in a statement that its guerrillas had "destroyed a Zionist warship ... off Tyre." "At 4:30 pm (1330 GMT), the Islamic Resistance attacked with its blessed missiles an Israeli SAAR 4.5, with a crew of 53 officers and soldiers, off the coast of Tyre," it said. "It was hit and destroyed. (Posted @ 22:30 PST)

http://www.cggl.org/scripts/new.asp?id=638

http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/31/welcome.htm

 

[tphuang]

There's fresh reports of another missile hit on a Sa'ar 4.5 stationed off of Tyre.

Hezbollah claims attack on warship, Israel denies TYRE, Lebanon, July 31, (AFP) - Hezbollah guerrillas fired a missile on an Israeli warship off the coast of the southern Lebanese port city of Tyre on Monday, police said, but the Israeli army denied the claim. It claimed in a statement that its guerrillas had "destroyed a Zionist warship ... off Tyre." "At 4:30 pm (1330 GMT), the Islamic Resistance attacked with its blessed missiles an Israeli SAAR 4.5, with a crew of 53 officers and soldiers, off the coast of Tyre," it said. "It was hit and destroyed. (Posted @ 22:30 PST)

http://www.cggl.org/scripts/new.asp?id=638

http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/31/welcome.htm

There was a post like this on SDF too, but there hasn't been any mention of this in Israeli press, so we got rid of it.

 

[Markus40]

What i understand happened to the Israeli missile boat was that as the Iranian missile was launched it had homed in on the rear of the missile boat just under the Helo landing pad. Then as the bow of the missile boat went down from a wave, the missile hit the top end of the helicopter deck and exploded there. Lucky, because if it had exploded on its intended trajectory then the Missile boat would have sunk with more loss of life.

The second thing i really dont understand was why the radar on the Missile boat didnt have it tracked and why it was "turned off" in a war zone. That really doesnt make sense at any level of logic and maybe someone could shed some light on this issue.

 

[Grand Danois]

According to IDF's website, the Hanit returned to service 6th of Aug.

Navy Missile Ship Returns to Service

The Israel Navy missile ship Hanit, damaged July 14, 2006 by a missile launched at it from Lebanon, returned to the sea this week following repair work.

The missile ship Hanit was loitering near Beirut when a missile launched from the Lebanese coast struck it during the first days of Operation Change of Direction. The missile caused a fire aboard the ship and killed four crew members: Petty Officer 3rd Class Tal Amgar, Seaman Yaniv Hershkovitz, Petty Officer 2nd Class Dov Shtrenshos and Corporal Shy Atias.

The Hanit sailed back to Israel and underwent rehabilitation work at the Ashdod naval base in order to return to operational service.

http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=7&docid=55875.EN

 

[contedicavour]

According to IDF's website, the Hanit returned to service 6th of Aug.

Wow they haven't lost time there... though I wonder if all systems are really operational again. The radar turns allright, but after such a blast you normally need weeks to ensure all systems (starting with guiding Baraks) are perfectly working.
Anyway, an important symbolic victory against the Hezbollah.

cheers