Israeli Armor
- Thread starter fylr71
- Start date
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
merocaine said:
One last thing.
Fair enough, I agree hizbollah is definately not Al Quida. they seem to be reasonable and do alot of good for the community, in some ways. However IMHO the fact that their primary goal is the destruction of the jewish state, and their large scale attacks on civillian targets (however innefective) can not be excused, whatever the justification.
Even the best tanks remain vunerable - especially against mobility kills. You just can't build the tracks strong enough to withstand every explosion. Also the engine will remain a weak point because you can't seal it totally with armour. It needs air and an exhaust. So a simple molotov cocktail can be enough to immobilize a MBT if you bring it close enough to hit the right point.
But also simple armour penetration will remain a pretty possible thread.
After all, steel is just steel and the possibilities to make it thougher and harder are limited. You can use Uranium and you can create sandwich configurations with new ceramics, or glass fibres or other stuff, but it never will take a long time till there is a armour piercing weapon that is able to get through the new super armour.
I think the future of vehicle protection will rather be active protection systems like the russian ARENA.
(Or this here, the user named Kams pointed out in another thread:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5101)
So the tanks of the future might rather go the same way as war ships went decades ago. Relying to more and more sophisticated active protection systems and reducing the after all less usefull armour to a minimum in favour of agility. And of course stealth characteristics.
But also simple armour penetration will remain a pretty possible thread.
After all, steel is just steel and the possibilities to make it thougher and harder are limited. You can use Uranium and you can create sandwich configurations with new ceramics, or glass fibres or other stuff, but it never will take a long time till there is a armour piercing weapon that is able to get through the new super armour.
I think the future of vehicle protection will rather be active protection systems like the russian ARENA.
(Or this here, the user named Kams pointed out in another thread:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5101)
So the tanks of the future might rather go the same way as war ships went decades ago. Relying to more and more sophisticated active protection systems and reducing the after all less usefull armour to a minimum in favour of agility. And of course stealth characteristics.
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"MATE",have you read the newspaper lately?Which civilian die more,Israel or Palastine and Lubnan?The casualty in the Palestine and Lubnan side is almost 500 while the Israel,less then 50 if 'm not mistaken.About the FREEDOM FIGHTER thing,they do hide behinde civilian because they are the civilian.They take arm because the are force too by the Israel.But the Israel army,they hide behind civilian because they send the conscript army which consist of civilian.Ozzy Blizzard said:
P.S:The freedom fighters are not even an army,they just a militia and I dont
hate the Jews,I just hate Jews who support the Zionisms.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Look we've had this conversation. if you look at my earlier posts you'll see that dont agree with manny of Isreal's actions, including their targeting of civilian inferstructure. However Hizbollah is continuing to launch artillary (katusha rockets) attacks against isreali population centres, DELIBERATLY trying to kill civillians. They are not just noble "freedom fighters" ard are baced on an ideology of hate. As for Zionism, i compleatly simpathise with the palistinian, lebonese and isreali people for the hardships they are all going through. But dont the Jews desreve a homeland too? Remember, Judea existed untill the jewish revolt under the roman empire in the 1st century AD, untill the Romans sacked jerusalem and sold the Jewish people into slavery, scattering them throughout europe. The dangers of not having a homeland can be clearly seen in what happened in WW2. So if you you want to play the "we where there first" game we could go around in circles for days. Wouldn't it be more productive for all of us to move towards the "two state solution" as the only viable alternative that wont end in massive bloodshed? Maybe we should all agree that the situation is totally f**cked up, and there's no absoloute right or wrong. So i'll make you a deal, if you dont use the word "freedom fighter' I wont use the word "terrorist', we'll both just say Hizbollah? ok?noves said:
DoC_FouALieR
New Member
On the counterpart, a there was a Merkava who withstand 7 hits from Sagger and RPG-7, and the crew wasn't injured at all nor mobility- nor fire-kill for the tank.
DoC_FouALieR
New Member
But anyway, if I have to choose one tank almost all others for urban combat, it will certainly be the Merkava!
Agreed, Israel's experience at FIBUA (Fighting In Built Up Areas) especially with armoured and mechanised formations is second to none. Merkava may not be an Abrams or a Chally 2 - but it is a very effective platform that suites Israeli tactics, doctrine and battle environment better than possibly any other option available at present.
Another example of the IDF's lessons learnt, are the myriad of APC conversions she has made from older model MBT chassis (Nemar - based on Merkava 1 conversions; Nakpadon - which are converted Centurions for example). Also note the efforts made to seriously upgrade the armour on her M-113A1/2 fleet. Interesting how Israel has preffered these options over procurring systems like the M2 Bradley - which the IDF quickly shunned back in the early 1990s.
Yeah, right.
They use infantry not in the same way most NATO countrys use them. I think this is due to the fact that Israel is very small. There is just not enough space for a real mobile defence.
The Merkava is also not the a tank for mobile warfare.
They use infantry not in the same way most NATO countrys use them. I think this is due to the fact that Israel is very small. There is just not enough space for a real mobile defence.
The Merkava is also not the a tank for mobile warfare.
IED are something that cant be counter and US army in Iraq are having enourmos problems with it. I have seen pics of M1A2 without ture blown up by 300kg IED. No tank in the world has such armor to withstand ii.Manfred said:
Against shoulder launch weapons Russian APS Arena or Drozd-2 sistem are providing max protection as well as Israel Tropy sistem and by my opinion are mutch batter than reactive armor.In Afganistan during Soviet intervention T-55/T-60 equiped with APS Drozd-1 provided 80 percent efficienty against RPG.
Blown up. I know US people dont know mutch about US losses in Iraq and gang with the power in theirs hands dont like to talk about it but if you research a little you will find numerous pics of blown up and disabeld Abrams/Bradly etc, I have even seen video of a shoot down Apache helicopter down with Igla (4 US marines lost theirs lifes). Abrams is one of the most amoured Tank in the world but is not all mighty and couple of Rpg-29 or Rpg-7 hit below turet or at side etc will penetrate it. Now 300kg IED is something - there is no such armor that can whithstand suche force. Sorry to losse video I had a link - but nevertheless it would only make you nervous and mad so perhaps it is batter this way.Bfn42 said:
(it was if I remember somewhere on ogrish.com)
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Grand Danois
Entertainer
Viktor said:
- Apaches have a crew of two.
- Apaches are flown by Army, not Marines.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Kornets from the Syrian Army?