Iraqi Air Force wants F-15 and F-16s

[Izzy1]

Middle East News Line - Arms, Defence, Strategy Newsletter Vol.4 No.20
May 7 2007

IRAQ

The Iraq Air Force has drafted requirements for advanced U.S.-origin fighter-jets.

Officials said the air force envisions the procurement of the U.S.-origin F-15 and F-16 fighters over the next few years in a process meant to restore Iraq as a regional air power. They said the acquisition of advanced U.S. combat aircraft would replace Soviet-origin platforms in the Iraqi military.

http://www.menewsline.com/defense.html

Jane's World Airforces - Iraq, 18 May 2007

Long-Term Outlook

A 2003 study undertaken by the Coalition command in Iraq - the Combined Joint Task Force-7 (CJTF-7) - envisaged that in the longer term Iraq might again deploy fully-equipped armed forces with a strength of more than 225,000 personnel, including an air force and air defence force.

The CJTF-7 study envisaged a move away from Soviet-designed aircraft to Western designs, suggesting acquisition by a future Iraqi air arm of 40 F-15 Eagle and 160 F-16 Fighting Falcon aircraft, on the premise that these are modern fighting aircraft, but by no means the most advanced US aircraft being flown in the region. Pointing out that neighbouring Saudi Arabia also deploys the F-15, the study suggested that the variant most likely to be sold or leased to Iraq would be the F-15C, which is optimised for air superiority missions.

The study perceived the Iraqi Air Force of the future having a strength of 25,000 personnel, significantly less than under Saddam Hussein, when it numbered about 30,000, augmented by an air defence command organisation that had an estimated 17,000 personnel.

Interesting news, have often wondered just how long it was until the rebuilding effort moved onto fighters. Boeing and Lockheed must be rubbing their hands gleefully at having access to what in my opinion will be a very closed market. For now anyways. But are such procurements and transfers wise given the instability?

Just for reference, Iraq's current air strength as per Jane's World Airforces

Type
Seabird SB7L 360 Seeker - 2 in the observation role.
JAI SAMA CH2000 MTSA - 8 in the observation role.
Aerocomp Comp Air 7SL - 5 in the observation role.
Lockheed C-130E Hercules - 3 in the transport role.

Mil Mi-17 - 4 in the transport role.
Mil Mi-17/1 - 4 in the transport role.
PZL W3 Sokol - 2 in the communications role.
Bell UH-1 Iroquis II - 16 under order for the transport role.
Bell 206B Jet Ranger - 4 in the communications role.

 

[merocaine]

The Americans would have to be insane to supply the Iraqi "army" with modern weapons.
The Iraqi Airforce can request all it wants.

1/ Would they be used against Turkey in a dispute over the North of Iraq

2/ Would they be flown to Iran at the earliest opertunity.

3/ Would they be turned on a peticular community in the case of civil war

4/ Would they be used against coalition forces in country.

As long as the Americans can't answer in the negitave to those questions there wont be any sales.
Well there should'ent be anyway

There's know way the Iraqi's would be able to afford to finance such a deal anyway, 200 modern fighters, restoring/building/converting airfields, training 300 plus pilots, rebuilding there radar net, training ground crews..... and thats just to get started!

 

[Izzy1]

I have to agree, Iraq is surely no where near stable enough to warrant such kit. If the country did fall into total civil-war and split into regions run by its ethnic factions, the Kurdish in the north could potentially end up with F-15s - something I'm certain Ankara would not be very pleased about.

And as you say, is the infrastructure there to even operate such advanced kit? I know the US has spent heavily redeveloping several Iraqi airbases but a lot more is needed. Surely more sensible options if they want new aircraft are transports and helicopters to support the counter-insurgency role, at the most maybe a Super Tucano-like COIN capability. Anything else seems happhazard at best.

 

[swerve]

I'd guess that they'll start with secondhand aircraft, initially F-16s. Costs a lot of money to rebuild an air force from scratch, & I think Iraqs oil is flowing too slowly to enable it to be extravagant, even with current high prices.

 

[T-95]

The Americans would have to be insane to supply the Iraqi "army" with modern weapons.
The Iraqi Airforce can request all it wants.

1/ Would they be used against Turkey in a dispute over the North of Iraq

2/ Would they be flown to Iran at the earliest opertunity.

3/ Would they be turned on a peticular community in the case of civil war

4/ Would they be used against coalition forces in country.

As long as the Americans can't answer in the negitave to those questions there wont be any sales.
Well there should'ent be anyway

There's know way the Iraqi's would be able to afford to finance such a deal anyway, 200 modern fighters, restoring/building/converting airfields, training 300 plus pilots, rebuilding there radar net, training ground crews..... and thats just to get started!

The current Iraqi leader ship is waaayyy to close to Iran for them to have those kinds of fighters. Is there any commonality between the F-15 and F-14 because if so then this would surely be a great place for the Iranians to buy spare parts to put their 79 F-14's back in service. Not to mention the possibility of Iraqi pilots defecting F-15's and F-16's to Shi'ite Iran.

 

[SABRE]

The current Iraqi leader ship is waaayyy to close to Iran for them to have those kinds of fighters. Is there any commonality between the F-15 and F-14 because if so then this would surely be a great place for the Iranians to buy spare parts to put their 79 F-14's back in service. Not to mention the possibility of Iraqi pilots defecting F-15's and F-16's to Shi'ite Iran.

I dont think F-15 spares would go withF-14 & only 26 or so F-14s are operational in IRIAF. Even if the pilots defect to Iran, what would Iranians do? They wont have weapon systems & wont get spare parts. By the time they rip off the the fighters, study them & make something out of them, the F-15 & F-16s would be obselete & will be no more importent than MiG-21, F-4 & F-5 (I suppose).

 

[T-95]

I dont think F-15 spares would go would F-14 & only 26 or so F-14s are operation in IRIAF. Even if the pilots defect to Iran, what would Iranians do? They wont have weapon systems & wont get spare parts. By the time they rip off the the fighters, study them & make something out of them, the F-15 & F-16s would be obselete & will be no more importent than MiG-21, F-4 & F-5 (I suppose).

They could easily steal the parts from the Iraqis because sooo many of them are loyal to Iran as demonstrated by the current situation in Iraq as well as Saddam's execution.

 

[SABRE]

They could easily steal the parts from the Iraqis because sooo many of them are loyal to Iran as demonstrated by the current situation in Iraq as well as Saddam's execution.

Its not that easy. US would stop the supply to Iraq itself. In the 1st place I dont think US would sell Iraq such aggressive weapons right now.

 

[LancerMc]

I completely agree, there is no way the USAF or it's allies will give the Iraqi AF anything like F-15 or F-16s. If Iraqi were to stabilize in the next few years, and when US forces left the country eventually Iraq may and I stress may get high performance jet aircraft.

With the the current situation in Iraq the military needs transports, helicopters, and observation aircraft for the foreseeable future. That's what exactly the U.S. is supplying their military currently with.

I wouldn't doubt some individual wrote down some memo saying if the Iraq AF could get combat aircraft, that the F-15 & 16 is what they would want. I could understand their want for such aircraft if the country was at peace. With Iran's new stance on being the dominate power in the Middle East, certain people are probably planning for the future of the country.

With the threat of civil war quite apparent, the US will not supply any heavy combat aircraft to the government for sometime until there are genuine progress in sectarian violence in Iraq.

 

[swerve]

... Is there any commonality between the F-15 and F-14 ....?

None at all.

 

[radiosilence]

Any deal valued at $50 million or more would require congressional approval which will be almost impossible.

 

[Izzy1]

I'm sure your right, but aren't we missing the point here?

This is not a plan devised by the Iraqis - the "Iraqi Air Force" is run by the United States. Thus it seems to me someone, somewhere in the Pentagon has come up with this plan and has reason to fancy their chances at pulling this off. I honestly hope I'm wrong, providing Baghdad with F-15 or F-16s is just madness given the current state-of-affairs.

As stated earlier, transports and helicopters are what is needed, not fast jets.

 

[merocaine]

This is not a plan devised by the Iraqis - the "Iraqi Air Force" is run by the United States. Thus it seems to me someone, somewhere in the Pentagon has come up with this plan and has reason to fancy their chances at pulling this off.

Good point, but this press release seems to be backing up its case with a report drafted in 2003, back when the Americans still thought that Iraq would make a usefull counter weight to Iran!
It looks like someone is chancing there arm here, my best guess is its a stalking horse, theres no chance of fast jets, but this might nudge the pentagon into looking at the airforce again.

 

[radiosilence]

I'm sure your right, but aren't we missing the point here?

This is not a plan devised by the Iraqis - the "Iraqi Air Force" is run by the United States. Thus it seems to me someone, somewhere in the Pentagon has come up with this plan and has reason to fancy their chances at pulling this off. I honestly hope I'm wrong, providing Baghdad with F-15 or F-16s is just madness given the current state-of-affairs.

.

I don't doubt that the idea of providing the Iraqi Air force with F16s and F15s might have been planned by some in the Pentagon however such big ticket items have no chance of being cleared by the Congress. Iraq is in Shambles and adding high tech fighters is like pour gasoline to the fire.

 

[T-95]

So dose this mean that Iraq may never get planes? Because right now it seems like the Americans want to leave and if that happens then the insurgency would be everywhere so it doesn't look like Iraq will ever stabilize, unless there is a pan-Arab peace keeping force deployed there after the Americans leave.

So much for an Iraqi Air Force.

 

[Izzy1]

So dose this mean that Iraq may never get planes?

As Iraq stands, stability wise, I honestly hope not.

unless there is a pan-Arab peace keeping force deployed there after the Americans leave.

Could the Arabs honestly do that in Iraq? Anything Sunni Saudi, Egypt or the rest put in will be met by Iran. Even if we could meet the obligation and demand.

 

[T-95]

As Iraq stands, stability wise, I honestly hope not.



Could the Arabs honestly do that in Iraq?

As i stated in your "Baxrain" thread the only forces that are capable of that are Egypt , SA and Iran but only if they all cooperate. Egypt could deploy 350,000 troops SA can deploy 75,000 and Iran can deploy 350,000. Egypt and SA have AF's big enough to deploy over 100 aircraft there to defend air space and have close air support. With existing security forces there should be nearly a million man army fighting insurgency which would dramatically quell after the Iranian deployment and support for the peacekeeping mission. Jordan could also play a small part as well.

 

[Izzy1]

That's a different thread Chief, but thanks.


In all honesty, they are very flattering numbers - who defends us in the meantime?!!

We could be there for 10+ years and the Shia and Kurds could still seperate, no?

Dare I propose another solution... Get in there now, whilst the US is there? Resolve the situation whilst still controllable and maybe build a democratic Shia powerbloc against Iran?

 

[T-95]

That's a different thread Chief, but thanks.


In all honesty, they are very flattering numbers - who defends us in the meantime?!!

We could be there for 10+ years and the Shia and Kurds could still seperate, no?

Dare I propose another solution... Get in there now, whilst the US is there? Resolve the situation whilst still controllable and maybe build a democratic Shia powerbloc against Iran?

Yes how would that look?! The Egyptian gov't is facing a lot of backlash right now from the population for letting the US Navy through the canal. The only time they can do that with out committing political suicide is after the Americans leave so they can say their helping Iraq and cleaning up the mess the Americans made which would make the presidents and kings of those countries look like absolute heroes.

 

[falcon2k7]

We learned our lesson about selling high tech military goods to others back with Iran. So there are a few safeguards in place now to make sure such weapons could not be turned around and used against us.

That being said, Iraq is a LONG way from having to worry about an Air Force. They got a lot more pressing matters. Still, if they want F-15's, better hurry because I think the production line is about to come to halt one of these days soon. (2007 or 2008). After Singapore, there hasn't been any other large foreign orders as the F-35 is on the horizon.