Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. Provokes USN Warships

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eaf-f16

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I know that the IRGC took over all Iranian naval operations in the Strait of Hormuz about a month ago. Apparently, IRGC boats "charged" the US warships telling them "We're coming at you! You're going to explode in a couple of minutes!" while dropping white boxes in the water which forced the USN warships to take evasive maneuvers to avoid the boxes. At the "very" moment that the US warships were about to fire at the Iranian boats the Iranians turned away. The USN doesn't know what the white boxes were or contained.

The Iranians said this "wasn't out of the ordinary" and that they "didn't recognize" the USN warships that they were only 200 yards away from at one point.

Here's a link.

It looks to me like the IRGC was seeing what type of actions the American ships would take if being attacked. You know, testing their reaction. If that was the mission then they did it successfully.

What do you think?
 
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gulfsecurity

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Iranian boats welcoming President Bush

Five small Iranian boats repeatedly charged 3 U.S. warships in the Gulf's Hormuz Strait and dropped boxes in the water. The incident occurred as Navy cruiser USS Port Royal, destroyer USS Hopper and frigate USS Ingraham were on their way into the Persian Gulf and passing through the strait.
Under the title Iranian boats welcoming President Bush, gulfsecurity.blogspot.com said that the incident was a welcoming massage to President Bush during his coming visit to the Arabian Gulf that well start in the next few days. What about the direct threat that the Iranian boats could impose to GCC oil tankers that doesn't have self defense capabilities as the US Navy Ships
 

eaf-f16

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Five small Iranian boats repeatedly charged 3 U.S. warships in the Gulf's Hormuz Strait and dropped boxes in the water. The incident occurred as Navy cruiser USS Port Royal, destroyer USS Hopper and frigate USS Ingraham were on their way into the Persian Gulf and passing through the strait.
Under the title Iranian boats welcoming President Bush, gulfsecurity.blogspot.com said that the incident was a welcoming massage to President Bush during his coming visit to the Arabian Gulf that well start in the next few days. What about the direct threat that the Iranian boats could impose to GCC oil tankers that doesn't have self defense capabilities as the US Navy Ships
I already posted this here.
 

Preceptor

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Staff member
Separate threads regarding the Iranian-USN incident in the Straits of Hormuz have been merged. In the future, please check to see if there is an already existing, and preferably active thread about a given topic prior to opening a new thread.
-Preceptor
 

gulfsecurity

New Member
Sir
they are not the same

What about the direct threat that the Iranian boats could impose to GCC oil tankers .
same news yes ,but this forum is not about posting news it is about
Deferent point of views
 

funtz

New Member
What about the direct threat that the Iranian boats could impose to GCC oil tankers that doesn't have self defense capabilities as the US Navy Ships
If the Iranian boats start to harass the oil tankers or behave in a threatening way towards them, they can really be dealt with before they become a headache to the worlds oil supply. I think the Gulf states can achieve that own their own.

A cruiser USS Port Royal, destroyer USS Hopper and frigate USS Ingraham VS. Five small boats, i mean come on.
what were the type of these boats, what weapons did they have on them?

I thought the IRGC was considered terrorists by the USA, by that logic they should have shot on the boats a long time before they got as close as they did (some one on the news said a hundred yards). Is this a way to deal with so called "terrorists", does the US Amry tell the terrorists in Afghanistan to go back into the mountains or be shot at, this Terrorist tag on IRGC seems more for rhetoric.

IRGC boats "charged" the US warships telling them "We're coming at you! You're going to explode in a couple of minutes!" while dropping white boxes in the water which forced the USN warships to take evasive maneuvers to avoid the boxes. At the "very" moment that the US warships were about to fire at the Iranian boats the Iranians turned away. The USN doesn't know what the white boxes were or contained.

The Iranians said this "wasn't out of the ordinary" and that they "didn't recognize" the USN warships that they were only 200 yards away from at one point.
really WTF, shouting "you are going to explode" on the radio, ha ha ha, oh wait ha ha. Real smart terrorists throwing white boxes into the ocean after shouting "We're coming at you! You're going to explode in a couple of minutes!" and the "The USN doesn't know what the white boxes were or contained" hey i have a guess on the only thing that could have been in these boxes (considering the chatter on the radio).

"At the "very" moment that the US warships were about to fire at the Iranian boats the Iranians turned away."
he he Right, i thought them white boxes should have been reason enough.
 

Falstaff

New Member
And another one that makes you say "What the..."

I guess that as always with the Iranian weirdo actions one has to consider an inner and an outer perspective.

For the outside world the message surely isn't "look how we kill ourselves most efficiently by attacking USN warships with nut shells", but it could be we were demonstrated a way to interrupt shipping lines with a "lower profile" attack compared to firing AShMs across the Strait of Hormuz. Could be they wanted to demonstrate the options they have and could there be a saver way to raise public interest than demonstrating that with USN ships?
IMHO a small (hardly detectable) boat carrying small improvised mines (white packages) attacking a tanker at night definitely is a threat and at least needs many efforts to counter.

For the Revolutionary Guards themselves this was a hell of an action and I guess there was a huge party... ahm... well, whatever a fundamentalist party looks like. They proved to the Iranian people and leadership that they have cojones and can perform such an action. And again, it was the USN, so they will definitely get a lot of applause.

As Rich said in another thread:
Rich said:
I think Iran is following a historical pattern for repressive regimes in vaunting and parading around their "magical weapons systems". You saw the same thing with communism, fascism, South America militarism...ect Such regimes like trying to install fear in their enemies and evoke nationalism in their own people. Make no mistake, these are high stakes propaganda wars.
 

eaf-f16

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And another one that makes you say "What the..."

I guess that as always with the Iranian weirdo actions one has to consider an inner and an outer perspective.

For the outside world the message surely isn't "look how we kill ourselves most efficiently by attacking USN warships with nut shells", but it could be we were demonstrated a way to interrupt shipping lines with a "lower profile" attack compared to firing AShMs across the Strait of Hormuz. Could be they wanted to demonstrate the options they have and could there be a saver way to raise public interest than demonstrating that with USN ships?
IMHO a small (hardly detectable) boat carrying small improvised mines (white packages) attacking a tanker at night definitely is a threat and at least needs many efforts to counter.

For the Revolutionary Guards themselves this was a hell of an action and I guess there was a huge party... ahm... well, whatever a fundamentalist party looks like. They proved to the Iranian people and leadership that they have cojones and can perform such an action. And again, it was the USN, so they will definitely get a lot of applause.

As Rich said in another thread:
I don't think Iran did this as a means to boost public morale.

I think this was more of a test to see what type evasive maneuvers/actions those USN warships would have taken if such an attack would take place.
 

Manfred2

New Member
I think it was a pretty bone-headed stunt.

Dumping little white boxes,to make us think they were bombs? Jeez...

All they did was remind our men to have the 50s and the 20mm guns mounted and ready whenever they smell Iran's coastline.

They might also have reminded teh US Navy that patrol ships under 1,000 tons are still useful in some parts of the world.
I hope so, anyway.

Did they really say that they didn't know these were American ships? Who did they think they were, British?:rolleyes:
 

eaf-f16

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I think it was a pretty bone-headed stunt.

Dumping little white boxes,to make us think they were bombs? Jeez...
It was probably calculated not a "stunt" and dumping little white boxes in the water seemed to have worked well enough to scare the USN ships into evasive maneuvers.

All they did was remind our men to have the 50s and the 20mm guns mounted and ready whenever they smell Iran's coastline.
Too bad "your men" didn't remember quick enough while the Iranian boats were still there... :rolleyes:


Did they really say that they didn't know these were American ships? Who did they think they were, British?:rolleyes:
They are obviously lying. They were only 200 yards away from the USN ships at one point. The Iranians meant to do what they did.
 

alexycyap

New Member
Are speed boats effective weapons?

Just wondering if Iranian speed boats can adopt tactics to make them effective weapons against the USN, particularly against an aircraft carrier.

For example, what if a dozen speed boats, each armed with a missile/torpedo, approach a carrier battlegroup until they are within a few hundred yards of the carrier, but instead of turning away, they all fire their weapons simultaneously at near point-blank range at the carrier. Would this take out the carrier? Is this a feasible tactic?
 

eaf-f16

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Just wondering if Iranian speed boats can adopt tactics to make them effective weapons against the USN, particularly against an aircraft carrier.

For example, what if a dozen speed boats, each armed with a missile/torpedo, approach a carrier battlegroup until they are within a few hundred yards of the carrier, but instead of turning away, they all fire their weapons simultaneously at near point-blank range at the carrier. Would this take out the carrier? Is this a feasible tactic?
They'd all be shot dead before they could even come close. And you can't fire guided long-range anti-ship missiles from speed boats and you need radars to guide them. Then there are ECM's, air-defense and myriad of other problems. I don't think it's plausible. You need highly sophisticated weapons systems to sink an aircraft carrier. And even then...
 

alexycyap

New Member
They'd all be shot dead before they could even come close.
Maybe stunts like these are also to test how close they can get to USN vessels before being fired upon.

If speed boats can get within a few hundred yards, then perhaps one day they might be able to launch a surprise pre-emptive attack on a carrier group if things get desperate for them. If they can get within such point-blank range, they might not need advanced targeting systems. Just point and launch a dozen or more missiles/torpedos at the carrier. Lets say a few of these hit the carrier, would this at least disable it? Perhaps disable it enough to be finished off by land-based aircraft.
 

chakos

New Member
Why do you think they would even bother firing missiles at the warships. At 200m how long do you think it would take to hit if those boats decided to perform a suicide attack? In this situation there where only 5 boats but speedboats are cheap and explosives are cheaper, even if suicide bombers arnet the sharpest tool in the shed they still make a pretty decent guidance package. So you have a missile of sorts (the speedboat itself) a warhead and a guidance package only 200m from American warships. Could have turned very nasty for all involved. The ROE need to be changed so that any formation of more than 2 incoming vessels is engaged at a distance of at least 500m. If at 200m they decide to attack there is no chance you will get them all before they hit.
 

McTaff

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Everyone seems to be focusing on the wrong thing here.

The points to consider are the following:
1) They tested to see if they could get a speedboat within contact / point blank attacking range, and
2) They attempted to get the US to shoot at them, regardless of what weapon.

All the business about whether you can point-blank fire missiles is moot, as that probably wouldn't be how Tehran would respond.

They are rattling sabres and hoping the US will draw and strike first so they can start messing with Uncle Sam directly. At the moment they want the US out of the Gulf ASAP so they can put their stranglehold around the Shatt and secondarily try to control Iraq. They know there is a Shiite majority there and that works for them, perhaps even a step towards annexing the entire country - who knows? That is too far down the line to care about right now.

The Iranians think that the US engaging Iranian boats would cause the West to mount further pressure to rush the US out of Iraq. An open conflict by the US with Iran would cause another series of crises in the area, and potentially add Iranian military to the current issues that the US has in Iraq and the Gulf.

The transmissions possibly did not come from the boats, but by another vessel or ground station nearby. In any case, this could be the defence put forward by the Revolutionary Guard if there was an altercation, even if they did send them from the boats or from a directly supporting establishment or vessel.

Unfortunately, the microscope is on the US everywhere right now, and this incident is nothing but a footnote compared to whenever the US make a simple honest mistake. The Iranians know this and may continue harassing the US until someone starts a deadset real shooting war.

The Iranians are smarter than to carry on like they did in the 80's, and are trying to draw the US into looking like it is taking an unprovoked action, achieving this by presenting scenarios that they can dismiss any apparent bad behaviour on their part with some type of excuse.

The boxes would be explained away as 'trash dumped overboard' or 'loose fishing cartons being left unattended'. Any ship needs to avoid any collision with an underwater object, inert objects can cause immense damage to hulls, sonar equipment, countermeasures, props and rudders. Explosive or not, I'd cite this as a deliberate action by the Iranians - one would think that there is countless acres of aquatic real estate for things to come off a boat. For it to happen in the path of a US Navy vessel accompanied with all the other goings-on I'd be gathering evidence of it happening for later.

So, Iran is probing the US to see how far they can push them, how close they can get, and how ready Uncle Sam is to start flinging lead.

As for what the US were using, they were about to engage with an M240B according to some sources (and the 25mm would have been the next item on the "to use" list). They were definitely well within the minimum range for the missile system, and the 5" would have been overkill.

As for the Iranians, they have a lot of anti-shipping missiles onshore.
They have the Kowsar, Silkworm and the Noor, all can easily reach targets in the Straits while being miles inshore. Next, they have buckets of fast missile craft. They are all about saturation attacks from either or both, and quite simply they can put a vessel out there to follow the US for intel gathering and position reporting, and there isn't a lot that can be done about it. If the US shoots a threatening gunboat/boghammer/patrol boat/missile boat, then it just might be that Tehran could decide to take matters into their own hands right afterwards without resorting to the public arena to voice concerns. It may even be that Tehran sits on it and strikes later; revenge being served cold and whatnot.

Effectiveness can be argued all day about whether they can fire enough missiles, whether the missiles (like the Silkworm) will work, whether the AEGIS can blot them out before they get within burst range or hit, and whether the Iranians would actually try.

Whatever your flavour, and hit percentages and so on, if that happens there will be a lot more than that initial engagement to worry about. I need not remind everyone of the USS Stark, USS Samuel B. Roberts and USS Vincennes incidents.

As far as the Iranians are concerned, this is a "mission accomplished".
 
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metro

New Member
Just wondering if Iranian speed boats can adopt tactics to make them effective weapons against the USN, particularly against an aircraft carrier.

For example, what if a dozen speed boats, each armed with a missile/torpedo, approach a carrier battlegroup until they are within a few hundred yards of the carrier, but instead of turning away, they all fire their weapons simultaneously at near point-blank range at the carrier. Would this take out the carrier? Is this a feasible tactic?
This article explains Iranian Navel tactics pretty well (IMO anyway):
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2548

I really can't believe there wasn't even a warning shot fired. :confused:
Many people in the US are already saying, "What are those puny 'speedboats' going to do to our huge 'Boats'? Bush just wants a war, it's so good the navy showed restraint..."!

I can only imagine if those "big boats" had been hit, "This was obviously a setup! There's no way in the world the USN would have allowed those 'little speedboats' to get anywhere near those billion $ ships... etc." Regardless, if the USN vessels ended up like the Cole, I wonder how many 'Kids' would have heard, "You've got mail! Your lottery number is..."?

-cheers
 

rossfrb_1

Member
Why do you think they would even bother firing missiles at the warships. At 200m how long do you think it would take to hit if those boats decided to perform a suicide attack? In this situation there where only 5 boats but speedboats are cheap and explosives are cheaper, even if suicide bombers arnet the sharpest tool in the shed they still make a pretty decent guidance package. So you have a missile of sorts (the speedboat itself) a warhead and a guidance package only 200m from American warships. Could have turned very nasty for all involved. The ROE need to be changed so that any formation of more than 2 incoming vessels is engaged at a distance of at least 500m. If at 200m they decide to attack there is no chance you will get them all before they hit.
or even launch a [SIZE=-1]Skval (sp) like super-cavitating torpedo which has a range of about 3km? I always wondered what use it might have.....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1607856/posts
Interesting times indeed.

rb
[/SIZE]
 

funtz

New Member
Iran releases own video of U.S. Gulf incident
Thu Jan 10, 7:31 AM ET

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran released a video on Thursday which it said showed its boats did not threaten U.S. navy vessels in the Gulf, countering Washington's account of the event which President George W. Bush called "a provocative act."

The video, aired by Iran's Press TV satellite station, gave a completely different version of Sunday's incident in the Strait of Hormuz compared with one released earlier this week by the U.S. Department of Defense.

The incident was the latest sign of tension between Washington and Tehran, at odds over Iran's nuclear program and who is to blame for the violence in Iraq. It coincides with Bush's visit to the Middle East this week.

Press TV said the video, released by Iran's Revolutionary Guards a day after the force dismissed the Pentagon video as fake, included a recording of what it said was the exchange between the two sides.

Guards Brigadier General Ali Fadavi said Iran's boats had only approached the U.S. ships to examine the registration numbers as they had been unreadable, Press TV said.


The video showed an Iranian naval officer in a small craft speaking via radio to a ship which could not be clearly identified. A total of three ships could be seen on the video. One had the number 73 emblazoned on the side of its bow.

"Coalition warship 73 this (is an) Iranian navy patrol boat," the officer said in accented English.

"This is coalition warship 73. I read you loud and clear," the person replied in what seemed to be an American accent.

The Iranian officer then appeared to ask for the ships to identify themselves, though his words at times were indistinguishable:

"Coalition warship 73 this (is) Iranian navy patrol boat, request side number ... operating in the area (at) this time."

Fadavi, describing the Iranian action as normal inspections of vessels, accused the United States of creating a "media fuss," Fars News Agency reported.

"The governing system of America, at the time of Bush's failed trip to the region, is in need of such media fuss in order to reach its specific political goals," he said.

In contrast, the Pentagon video included a voice from a U.S. ship informing one of the small craft that it was "straying into danger and may be subject to defensive measures."

The craft responded: "You will explode after ... minutes," according to the video.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080110/ts_nm/iran_usa_ship_dc

What, a little old war on or something?

Where is this video, any one seen it?

What is the view of the Iranian public on the situation?
 

Amarion

New Member
My thoughts of the Exact Situation

I have many thoughts on this but very little time. Yes I believe evasive action was the right course to take since we didn't know what was in those boxes. Second whatever the mission of the Iranians was, they surely must've gotten what they needed.

Later ideas shall be posted by me.

Amarion
 

harms

New Member
video

Video is on BBC news website, in the MIddle East section. Quality is avearge, but the sound is normal.
 
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