Iranian Airforce

[weasel1962]

Re:

Not forgetting something as simple as missiles.

Typhoon/F-15C - AIM-120C-5s
Upcoming F-15SA - AIM-120C-7s.

Iranian? F-5s are not BVR and the Migs hasn't exactly been effective in the past few A2A combat engagements over Iraq/Serbia etc.

 

[Feanor]

And more importantly, the system of systems which compliment and support the F-15C, EF-2000, et. al. Minor little things like satcoms, AEW/AWACS, datalinks.

Plus of course the training and doctrine to effectively use the platform and supporting system.
Collectively, it all makes an enormous difference.

-Cheers

Well his whole argument is that Iranian pilots are better prepared then Saudi. At least that's what I managed to glean from his posts. I'm not going to set out to argue that, when we can bypass the whole issue and simply demonstrate that pilot training in this case can not overcome the technology barrier.

 

[Todjaeger]

Well his whole argument is that Iranian pilots are better prepared then Saudi. At least that's what I managed to glean from his posts. I'm not going to set out to argue that, when we can bypass the whole issue and simply demonstrate that pilot training in this case can not overcome the technology barrier.

That and there is the whole question of whether or not the training covers any sort of DACT or not. Flight training and reasonable flight hours per month or year could indicate that a pilot knows how to operate their aircraft. Being able to operate a fighter in combat is a whole level of complexity past just normal flight ops.

-Cheers

 

[Feanor]

That and there is the whole question of whether or not the training covers any sort of DACT or not. Flight training and reasonable flight hours per month or year could indicate that a pilot knows how to operate their aircraft. Being able to operate a fighter in combat is a whole level of complexity past just normal flight ops.

-Cheers

Absolutely true. Do you have such info on the Iranian air force?

 

[Todjaeger]

Absolutely true. Do you have such info on the Iranian air force?

Working on it, nothing I would consider reputable yet though.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Working on it, nothing I would consider reputable yet though.

French govt source (in French):
IRIAF article on pg 46

Pg 51, 160 to 190 hours annually.

Don't forget Iran has very little constraint from fuel.

Its not the number of hours but the flight quality. Its not just flying the plane but ACM which has been developed through the years.

Besides SUPT, US has a military training centre (USMTM) set up in Saudi.
http://www.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?id=123217964

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123147927

 

[reinhard5490]

I'm just a little curious with Iranian HESA Saeqeh, is it just no more than F-5, or it could match... lets say F-16 from the gulf states? since the data about that plane is so hard to obtain...

afterall, others than pilot skills and generals strategies... guns do count

 

[dolphine]

I'm not sure you realize how huge the difference is between a modernized F-5 knock-off and a F-15C, or EF-2000.

iran air force have made a kind of fighter to saeghe name and azarakh sh bomber :iran
saeghe is a nice fighter like f-18 from usa
iran is the best army between middle east countries.
iran fighters are : f-14 upgraded --------- some kind of f-4 upgraded ------ f-5 upgraded -------mig-29 upgraded by him self and alone himself --------- su-24------ new saeghe fighter-------- new azarakh sh bomber -------- mirage f-1-----f-7

 

[reinhard5490]

iran air force have made a kind of fighter to saeghe name and azarakh sh bomber :iran
saeghe is a nice fighter like f-18 from usa
iran is the best army between middle east countries.
iran fighters are : f-14 upgraded --------- some kind of f-4 upgraded ------ f-5 upgraded -------mig-29 upgraded by him self and alone himself --------- su-24------ new saeghe fighter-------- new azarakh sh bomber -------- mirage f-1-----f-7

I'm interested with Saeghe (or Saeqeh?) how can it be compared with Hornet?

I mean from the certain aspects like AESA radar or else? since I could hardly obtain any information out of it, except that it looks like dual tailed F-5

 

[Feanor]

None of the Iranian fighters can claim anything more then early 4th gen. They could compete with something along the lines of a MiG-29A at best. None of them can match any F-18 variant. I think we can be fairly certain of that.

 

[reinhard5490]

Yes, I think so it would give me a heart attack if a country without a long history in aircraft making suddenly build an advanced aircraft.

so I can be quite sure that these new aircraft will not make a major difference in Iranian AF power

 

[dolphine]

I'm interested with Saeghe (or Saeqeh?) how can it be compared with Hornet?

I mean from the certain aspects like AESA radar or else? since I could hardly obtain any information out of it, except that it looks like dual tailed F-5

=========================
There engine is Sample rd33 ---- Radar Sample mig29 .. Optimized course ... all the analog systems installed in f5 turned to liquid crystal displays ..
more Speed - Greater stability and Maneuver better quality - more developed than f5 :type :gun
not certain sample f-18 hornet . saegeh is the ability to equality with the f18
Iran combining Eastern and Western military power can achieved for the enemies is also surprising.
Iranian F-14 aircraft and aircraft are not the former things have been done on producing countries that are not in the stream and even their minds to it was not.

 

[dolphine]

Yes, I think so it would give me a heart attack if a country without a long history in aircraft making suddenly build an advanced aircraft.

so I can be quite sure that these new aircraft will not make a major difference in Iranian AF power

Iran has upgraded all its fighters by Iranian engineers.
Chinese fighter j10/j11 built from fighter Levy Israeli
Israel Levi fighter made from America f16
America helps Israel to build fighter
What is wrong with Iran build a fighter from the East and west
Iran in the final design of stealth aircraft ( shafage )is the aircraft design phase Radargryz Iran since ended and the aircraft now in the prototype construction phase, but are smaller in size.
The aircraft then performed the required tests to enter the real sector will be more parts to the end of this year's research work is done and then gets into the manufacturing sector. Iran is building a small example of the stealth aircraft are ..
please searching on internet this word : Iranian fighter shafagh .. you shall see it.

 

[Feanor]

=========================
There engine is Sample rd33 ---- Radar Sample mig29 .. Optimized course ... all the analog systems installed in f5 turned to liquid crystal displays ..
more Speed - Greater stability and Maneuver better quality - more developed than f5 :type :gun
not certain sample f-18 hornet . saegeh is the ability to equality with the f18
Iran combining Eastern and Western military power can achieved for the enemies is also surprising.
Iranian F-14 aircraft and aircraft are not the former things have been done on producing countries that are not in the stream and even their minds to it was not.

For starters sources would be nice. Second of all, I don't mean to be offensive, but your English is awful. You're barely understandable. From what I do gather combining "Eastern" and "Western" has nothing to do with Iran's ability to turn F-5 based knock-offs into advanced 4th gen fighters.

Iran has upgraded all its fighters by Iranian engineers.
Chinese fighter j10/j11 built from fighter Levy Israeli
Israel Levi fighter made from America f16
America helps Israel to build fighter

Yeah, that's wrong. The Lavi was not made from an F-16, nor was the J-10 (as has been discussed here) made from the Lavi.

What is wrong with Iran build a fighter from the East and west
Iran in the final design of stealth aircraft ( shafage )is the aircraft design phase Radargryz Iran since ended and the aircraft now in the prototype construction phase, but are smaller in size.
The aircraft then performed the required tests to enter the real sector will be more parts to the end of this year's research work is done and then gets into the manufacturing sector. Iran is building a small example of the stealth aircraft are ..

Nothing is wrong with building a fighter. Just realize that fighters aren't build by cut-n-pasting technology onto a template. They're the product of a set of requirements to real operating conditions, as well as the level of technology that the country in question posses. Within that context, your claims of "stealth" aircraft in Iran seem laughable at best.

 

[dolphine]

Yes, I think so it would give me a heart attack if a country without a long history in aircraft making suddenly build an advanced aircraft.

so I can be quite sure that these new aircraft will not make a major difference in Iranian AF power

============
first of all say : yes it is true . my english isnot good .. sorry .. i dont know well..i change my lanquage to english from : Language Tools ... "Google Translate".
===========
Iran mig type that Russian MiG-29B in 1980 the initial series of MiG-29 Fulcrum-A, which was called reproducing said. MiG-29B wiring to carry the bomb does not win and it can be reduced radar processing system, identify friend or foe (IFF) system and its electronic Zdml than the prototype for the Air Force and the former Soviet bloc countries, East Members Warsaw Pact was made, have been weaker. Although the MiG-29B Fulcrum-A series is known. But since the year 2010 marked the 29th Myg·hay Iran, have not suffered any change and only on one of four Iraqi MiG -29 Dvsrnshynh type UB (without radar) was self-sufficient by Jahad Nhaja, aerial refueling pods installed . Seem to install this pod, has angered Russian officials and they threatened to cut off technical support Myg·ha said. According to the two defects can be weak -29 MiG-range radar and low flying, two types of transformation or optimization for the MiG -29 possible that Iran seems to be two reasons: 1 - lack of cooperation by the two Russians - no funding in Nhaja; none have been done:

A) upgrade the standard MiG-29S
In this upgrade, a fuel tank in the back of the aircraft will be added as a lump prototype MiG -29 to be identified. Optimize or control the aircraft in the next upgrade with the installation of four computers that perform very -29 MiG flight capabilities improve, including the maximum angle of attack can be accelerated by two degrees. Although some experts believe that part of NATO behind emerged, not only the fuel tank system Zdml Advanced Electronics is L-203BE. But the most important part of upgrading the radar is the radar would increase dramatically, with trying to install some kits, MIG -29 affiliation to reduce ground radar controller. Thus enhanced by installing radar N019M, Mig -29 is capable ballistic missile R-27E air-to-air striking range to shoot 130 km. Consortium MiG - Mapv capabilities, although some efforts had little air to land be included in the MiG-29S, MiG -29, but to convert a multi-purpose fighter, the MiG-29SM ultimately from the heart of any species which is also S Srbravrd eventually build Abrjngndh called the MiG-29M Super Falkrvm led.

B) Optimization Vyvnyk
This optimization for the first time Falkrvmhay Polish Air Force was offered only to optimize the radar and some electronic accessories are included MiG -29, MiG -29 somehow be able to air intercept two targets simultaneously, and both missiles to shoot. In this optimization, installation of modern missiles similar to R-77 AMRAAM missiles, but American can have a better assessment, as is predicted.
This photo is about 1374, two Falkrvm Iranian missiles equipped with R-27E / R and are R-60MK shows.
Apparently the second aircraft type training R-27 with black stripes and is equipped with an unidentified object.
sorry for photoes .... i couldnt show it you.
This photo also Falkrvm thermoscope Iranian missiles with four R-73 shows. Engine Exhaust closed due course right for me unknown.

 

[dolphine]

For starters sources would be nice. Second of all, I don't mean to be offensive, but your English is awful. You're barely understandable. From what I do gather combining "Eastern" and "Western" has nothing to do with Iran's ability to turn F-5 based knock-offs into advanced 4th gen fighters.



Yeah, that's wrong. The Lavi was not made from an F-16, nor was the J-10 (as has been discussed here) made from the Lavi.



Nothing is wrong with building a fighter. Just realize that fighters aren't build by cut-n-pasting technology onto a template. They're the product of a set of requirements to real operating conditions, as well as the level of technology that the country in question posses. Within that context, your claims of "stealth" aircraft in Iran seem laughable at best.

I mean, the model fake Levi .... is j10
the model fake f16 ... is lavi
please searching on net : iranian shafagh jet fighter

 

[Todjaeger]

I mean, the model fake Levi .... is j10
the model fake f16 ... is lavi
please searching on net : iranian shafagh jet fighter

As has been discussed on DT and elsewhere on the internet repeatedly, the J-10 is not a copy of the Lavi, and the Lavi never actually saw production. Neither of which has anything to do with the Iranian Air Force, or Iran's ability to design, develope, modify or produce fighter aircraft.

From the photos released so far, the Iranian fighter very strongly resembles an F-20, but with a twin tail. In terms of which fighter aircraft generation it belongs in, that has very much to do with its onboard avionics and aircraft fitout.

Unless I am completely incorrect, Iran does not possess a domestic electronics industrial base sufficient to design and produce an indigenous AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar, or a radome radar and EO sensors capable of engaging air and ground targets at the same time, or comm systems to provide datalinks allowing information to be shared across multiple assets and/or platforms. Those features are often considered hallmarks of a 4.5 Gen aircraft.

As for any claims made of producing 'stealth' aircraft... Again, this has been discussed here on DT repeatedly. 'Stealth' is much more of a process, it really is the employment of certain technologies and capabilities in certain fashions, to reduce the SA (situational awareness) of an opponent so that opponent has little to no opportunity to respond. 'Stealth' is NOT a set of specific technologies, because the capabilities of opponents do not remain static and develop and change over time.

-Cheers

 

[dolphine]

cheer"s :coffee

 

[NICO]

I actually did google " Iranian fighter shafagh", looks like a M346 which isn't surprising since Russians helped? in early 2000s with this project. That's what I learned reading internet comments. I guess Russians used YAK/AEM-130 as starting point. Couple of problems I have with these Iranian air asset/air force topics is, let's face it, not a lot of info out there. They usually degenerate in:"my daddy makes more money than your daddy" and nothing comes out of the topic.

I doubt that this is really a 5th gen fighter because it just isn't. It's far more likely to be advanced trainer/light attack because in all likely hood that's it's origins. Nothing wrong with that by the way because Iran like every one else has to start it's aviation industry somewhere. Iran needs not just front line fighters but also trainers/light attack jets too. Another problem is most info seems a bit dated, generally 2003 to 2006?, haven't seen any recent photos/news.

Generally, we have seen some pictures of some Iranian fighters or trainers but never really a lot of info. It seems to me we have an Iranian statement saying:"things are great and very advanced" but then we never hear about production or a picture of a line up of these things.IOC? Pilots saying how happy to fly these new Iran fighters?How about a flyover with 10,15 or more of them so we know there's more than 1?
So we have a video of "Shafagh", it could be a nice jet but it could very well be a simple mock up.Seems to me that can apply to many Iranian projects, what about new tank?New SAMs? We get to see 1 or 2 or these Iranian systems, rarely in use but we are supposed to believe they are top notch and in full rate production?

I think Iran has done a good job considering sanctions and what not, keeping so many F5,F4 and F14s still flying and trying to build an aviation industry. I also think they sometimes "exaggerate" a bit to much and it actually hurts them by making them less believable. It wasn't that long ago (because I can still remember it ) that on Iranian posts we were reading about 200 Su27/30s and J10s just around the corner for Iranian Air force, well, where are they?

 

[Feanor]

The 200+ Su-30 was an article in Jerusalem Post.