Indonesian Aero News

Ananda

The Bunker Group

It is confirm that follow up commitment for IF-21 (KF-21 Indonesian specs) will be done by technical team that going to Seoul to discuss this. The team basically will finalise:
  1. Technical specification on IF-21 as Prabowo and Lee commitment specifically talk the agreement is for IFX,
  2. Industrial collaboration between KAI and DI,
  3. Financing scheme.
Add:
Korea source assesment, shown further technical working team meeting will then finalise the deal.

 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

No clear order yet for KF-21, but agreement to further cooperation after the development stage close in June this year. Other info talk about the further cooperation means industrial agreement as part of procurement deal. Potentially going to be sign after or in June, when development stages agreement closed. Thus next stage agreement can begin.

It is interesting there're talks on cooperation for trainer aircraft. Now the talk before between DI and KAI is to set up KT-1B line in DI facility http://instagr.am/p/DQG116-kVI0/ .

Still with intention for PC-21, is this mean PC-21 going to replace or supplement KT-1B? Why two similar class turboprop trainer ? Or could it be the rumours of DI and KAI developing KT-1B+ as COIN replacing Super Tucano? Well at this moment all still open.
What a horrible plan/rumours. IPTN and KAI developing a COIN version of the KT-1B, while the KO-1/KA-1 is exactly that and already existing and active for years. Besides that, the last EMB-314was just delivered in 2016. I actually don't even understand why they bought the EMB-314 in the past instead of the KA-1.


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This photo I take from Swiss media that shown the version of PC-24 that TNI-AU procure is having large cargo door. Thus this is again shown the multipurpose function of this aircraft. This is practically a jet with turboprop STOL capabilities. The large cargo door practically prepare for Medivac and remote transport. This function for Army are prepare by their N219, while AF now seems using this.
And this makes me also sad...this really indicates how slowly the development and preparation for production of the N219 is going.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Meteor part of Rafale's weapons deal?
My understanding the overall contract stages are 4 with 1st to 3rd stages is for 42 Airframes (6+18+18), and 4th ones is for armament and parts. No official info on what armament on that 4th stages of contract.

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However TNI-AU and Mindef sources hinted on Meteor and Mica for air to air missiles.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

ROK now on process to agree on transfering 1 KF-21 prototype to Indonesia. This is part of tech transfer between KAI to DI. All package will be cost KRW 600 bio as much as Indonesia payment on KF-21 project.

This is actually same argument from begining. Indonesia cost share should be KRW 2T, thus it is also means the value of tech transfer decreasing in proportion toward Indonesia decrease on KF-21 development costs.

DI claim they need the prototype to make adjustment toward their own version the IFX (IF-21). Rumours say that DI want to integrate same armament make up in IFX and Rafale. Meteor already fit for both Rafale and KF-21 , thus mean potentially other MBDA armament.

Add:
Got photo from Korean Defense event on KF-21 Blk2 (photo credit to Global Defense Insight). This is the multirole version that being talk what Indonesia and other potential export order will be based on. From 120 ROKAF order, 40 will be Blk1 and 80 Blk2.

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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
My understanding the overall contract stages are 4 with 1st to 3rd stages is for 42 Airframes (6+18+18), and 4th ones is for armament and parts. No official info on what armament on that 4th stages of contract.

View attachment 54645

However TNI-AU and Mindef sources hinted on Meteor and Mica for air to air missiles.
Personally i dont think the image above is a serious hint that TNI-AU will get the Meteor, this is just an overview with general specifications. If this image is a serious hint, then it means we also get the SCALP and Magic II, which is unlikely.

Like Ananda already reported, it is planned that Indonesia will get a KF-X prototype, it seems to be the 5th (single seat) one. I really hope Indonesia can keep this prototype in one piece the coming years, it will be really an embarrassment if this prototype crashes in our hands, caused by the obsession to show off to the public/press during 5 Oktober or because of pure amateurism.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Video on 80th aniversary of TNI-AU, shown that with the induction of Rafale, it still be for sometime that F-16 and Su-30 going to be use.

I really hope Indonesia can keep this prototype in one piece the coming years,
That proto will be transfer from KAI to DI, thus as proto it will be more likely use by DI tech calibration purpose and studies. Doubtfull in my opinion will be use by TNI-AU demo and airshow purpose.

If this image is a serious hint, then it means we also get the SCALP and Magic II, which is unlikely.

Well Magic II is short range AAM and standard in Rafale. Historically short range AAM is more likely to acquire first. As BVR, Rafale have two options on MICA and Meteor. Could TNI-AU have both ? Considering the official list on the armament package not clear yet it is still toss up. However TNI-AU Flankers do have two BVR in R-27 and R-77. Thus it is possible acquisition. While SCALP is also sold by French to India Rafale, so good chance French will not hesitate to sell to Indonesia. Provide the price is right, as rumours circulate shown probable it is part of armament packages.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

TNI-AU Chief stated in Media that they are already prepared for the 4 option order become effective contract. All wait MinDef decision. I sense this in the end waiting prioritising decision. Got sense A400M get more priority as it is already shown the worth during Sumatra flood emergency.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
For twin engine training TNI-AU can use the N219 or if that is too large/heavy using the Beechcraft Baron like Disnerbal also does, is a much cheaper option.
If they need it for transport with STOL-capabilities, well, they also already have the NC212 and CN235.

Personally i also think this acquisition is pure for VIP duties. As we all know high officials have the habit to spend way too much taxpayers' money on comfort and luxury and they have an obsessive urge to show off how high class, exclusive and important they are.
Even Ananda's friend, Alman Helvas is not agree with this procurement...

One more thing, Grob also produces a similar, slightly lighter and smaller (and probably also cheaper) aircraft, the G180. If TNI-AU buys the G180, at least it is made by the same manufacturer as the G120TP.

TNI-AU Chief stated in Media that they are already prepared for the 4 option order become effective contract. All wait MinDef decision. I sense this in the end waiting prioritising decision. Got sense A400M get more priority as it is already shown the worth during Sumatra flood emergency.
Well, at least we have good news.
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group

SCYTALYS work with DI to have it's Mission Integration Management System (MIMS) for N219 and CN-235 MPA versions. This make all the sensors that being put in the airframe to have C4ISR network abilities. Basically it make the MPA's can talk and communicate with network gateways that SCYTALYS work with MinDef before.

Even Ananda's friend, Alman Helvas is not agree with this procurement...
Awhhh that guy always whining if a deal does not come from his sales channel aka his brokerage lobby. He must be pissed big time when another broker able to bring Euro deal instead his colleagues team.

We don't know yet what those 12 PC-24 going to be use, some of them can be use for trainer, some of them can be use as multipurpose transport in which can be switch easily from medevac to VIP transport. However not impossible some of them can be use as specialise C4ISR assets. The above example on DI and SCYTALYS deal shown it is not difficult to turn an airframe toward that purpose.

So what if just for speculative purpose 4 of them become trainer, 4 of them become Multipurpose Transport, and 4 of them become electronic survailence. With some sensors and it's STOL capabilities, it will be an asset say in Papua mountain province to track down some insurgance that being corner now in mountain jungles. Well that's just probable speculation.
 
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Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member

SCYTALYS work with DI to have it's Mission Integration Management System (MIMS) for N219 and CN-235 MPA versions. This make all the sensors that being put in the airframe to have C4ISR network abilities. Basically it make the MPA's can talk and communicate with network gateways that SCYTALYS work with MinDef before.



Awhhh that guy always whining if a deal does not come from his sales channel aka his brokerage lobby. He must be pissed big time when another broker able to bring Euro deal instead his colleagues team.

We don't know yet what those 12 PC-24 going to be use, some of them can be use for trainer, some of them can be use as multipurpose transport in which can be switch easily from medevac to VIP transport. However not impossible some of them can be use as specialise C4ISR assets. The above example on DI and SCYTALYS deal shown it is not difficult to turn an airframe toward that purpose.

So what if just for speculative purpose 4 of them become trainer, 4 of them become Multipurpose Transport, and 4 of them become electronic survailence. With some sensors and it's STOL capabilities, it will be an asset say in Papua mountain province to track down some insurgance that being corner now in mountain jungles. Well that's just probable speculation.
It is like claiming the EH101 was bought for CSAR-missions (while already having 5 × EC725 helicopters in the fleet for this task), but in fact some persons think they deserve VVVIP-transportation.

Didn't we bought all those different kinds of UAVs for surveillance and intelligence operations in areas like the mountains of Papua? Ordering a new brand and type of private jet, paying for the development and modification of these fast flying and noisy private jets for the same tasks as purposely built UAVs, is in my opinion the peak of being impractical and not really "effisien anggaran".
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Ordering a new brand and type of private jet, paying for the development and modification of these fast flying and noisy private jets for the same tasks as purposely built UAVs, is in my opinion the peak of being impractical and not really "effisien anggaran".
Ahh, that's why they call it multipurpose. Altough C4ISR airframe base on Business Jet do have advantage compare to C4ISR base on small Turboprop like N219. Both have plus-minus, as turboprop cheaper but less suited for theater observation.

Add:
Personally I also raise question on the need of PC-24 or even PC-21 when the talk between KAI & DI for KT-1B production seems gaining momentum, especially after the two President meet. Still TNI-AU and MinDef I suspect will try to find additional functions for those PC-24 to add justification on the procurement.

For that light C4ISR asset is something that come in mind. Modified BBJ for that purpose will not be too hard, as DI and SCYTALYS tied up shown. On other hand using PC-24 as trainer will not be suitable enough if TNI-AU only have turboprop transport or specilise planes. However they do have 737 and Falcon 8 as Personel transport and VIP. Their pilots do need trainers to keep their rating proviciencies. Will procurement of PC-24 as trainer also indicating more turbofan coming?
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
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New livery for Presidential 737 BBJ, and additional new satelite communication dome. This is done yesterday when Prabowo went tp Jogjakarta and being escorted by F-16 from Madiun AB.

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Ananda

The Bunker Group

In Seoul Prabowo make commitment to pursue next stage of KFX/IFX deal, which is procurement of production stages. The technical team then will finalise the industrial coop and most importantly financing package.

Will that similar approach going to be pursue in Paris ? What's clear on this stage, the financing packages is the most important thing in my opinion. Whether KF/IF-21 or More Rafale I do believe more or less have technical and industrial deal being sort out. It is more on financing packages that need to be agreed upon on the terms.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
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From Swiderek Maciejka FB. TNI-AU Rafale B T-0304 is being photograph leaving Dasault facility toward French AB in Istress. There it will join the two Rafale C T-0317 and T-0318 that already leaving to Istress before.

All three being schedulles to have ferry flight to TNI-AU Pekanbaru AB by end of this month or early next month. With this the first batch contract of 6 already delivered consist of 4 Rafale B and 2 Rafale C. As the second and third batch of 18 each contracts taken bit gap for activation compare to first batch contract, I presume it will begin to delivered by next year onward.


Officialy being stated that meeting in Paris to talk on Defense Procurement, Renewable Energy Transition, Creative Industry and Transportation. No official statement on the result yet. However this is part of Prabowo's administration diplomacy. Getting defense coop in Washington, Energy Coop in Moscow, and Defense procurement in Paris.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

Latribune claim (again) that more Rafale is the main agenda, make it 4th tranches. Yes when Macron visit Jakarta last year it is also discussed on Scorpene 2nd batch and additional Ceasar Self Propeled Gun. Eventough FDI frigate being talked, somehow I only see more potential on adding more batches on assets that already been procured.

Still the press release only talk on intention and not procurement.contract. Thus I see this just like when Prabowo in Seoul with ROK Lee. Intention is there, but more technical talk need to be sorted out. The technical more talk on financing packages.

This is also matter of timing, as on present situation it is more urgent to close deal on more hydrocarbon access.


Thus the deal like with Russia on Hydrocarbon got priorities to be sort out.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

MinDef spokesman confirm that there's offer deal for 24 more Rafale on top of those 42 already contracted. This confirm La Tribune and other French sources of 17-24 Rafale being offer as next batches contract. So this potentially make 60-66 Rafale population.

So for those who still ask where the 24 F-15EX goes, now that's the answer. At least one of that. Just like with KF-21, both now fall in to technical negotiations on industrial and financing packages.
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
News about our southern neighbours.
https://scramble.nl/military-news/raaf-c-27js-to-be-withdrawn-from-service
|"If Australia releases its C-27J Spartans onto the market, the most realistic buyers are countries that already match the aircraft’s 'sweet spot' role: short-range tactical lift, disaster relief, and island and remote logistics.
The strongest candidates are the Philippines and Indonesia. Both countries have large archipelagos and frequent humanitarian logistics demand. The aircraft are well suited for short island hops and can operate from limited infrastructure airfields."|

Well, i really hope the C-27J will never enter our fleets. The amount of different types from different manufacturers/suppliers used by our armed forces is already way too high. A400M + C-130H/J + C295 + CN235 + NC212 + N219 is good enough.
 
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