Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

The purchase of the Garibaldi may serve as a transitional step, allowing Indonesia to gain experience deploying these types of ships and using unmanned aerial vehicles from them. The tasks that Giuseppe Garibaldi can perform are also perfectly suited for helicopter carriers.

In a transitional role, the Garibaldi will provide the Indonesian Navy with valuable knowledge and experience that can be used to shape the design of helicopter carriers.

An Indonesian purchase of the ship and its conversion into a drone carrier points to a new maritime reality, where regional and medium-sized maritime nations are capable of operationally developing a drone carrier. Given the relatively new technology and working methods of drone ships, Indonesia would be at the forefront of maritime drone deployment with a ship like the Giuseppe Garibaldi and Bayraktar TB3 drones.

@Sandhi Yudha I put quote on the Dutch Article that you put, as it is summarise why TNI-AL and MinDef want to do with Garibaldi quite precise. It is to gain exposure and experience operating Drone and Commando Helicopter/Light Carrier.

As PAL claim to build their own LHD/Light Carrier, have to see the capabilities both their own and budgetary in supporting that claim. They claim they can begin two years from now, but I suspect only after present presidential term.

Got colleugue work in state owned Bank, handling State Own Shipyards. He says eventough PAL have better financial management then other state owned shipyards, but not so much. Their opex and capex still walking in thin ice, thus if they can build more frigates and LPD, it is actually already in the max of their reach within present production and cash flow capabilities. So if TNI-AL take Garibaldi, I sense it will be close to a decade before PAL can go ahead with their own LHD. Off course unless the government willing to inject much more capital to PAL.

Who knows maybe later they will claim that besides 324 mm and 533 mm launch, this 15 meter long UUV will also get VLS tubes for tactical ballistic missiles.

The irony is their own graphic shown the UUV only cam attach two external tubes for Light Torp. The size of tubes clearly not able to handle Heavy Torp or SSM.

 

[Ananda]

Friend of mine send this, as this is part of Japan lobby to become supplier to Indonesia defense. Put it in this thread as again 'rumours' Japan try to match on China offer of 'interim' Destroyer and Frigates.

 

[Ananda]

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From Kompas TV when they follow KRI Brawijaya trip from Surabaya to Jakarta. This is sorry to say in Indonesian, but from 32:30 to 40:00, they give shown this PPA Bridge Cockpit control and CIC.

This ship shown some panels that still in Italian, shown this PPA originally should go to Marina Militare. The cockpit control model from AW helicopter.

 

[Ananda]

2.8K views · 217 reactions | Sea acceptance test KRI HAJI FISABILILLAH opv 90 Meter | Indonesia Defence Review

Sea acceptance test KRI HAJI FISABILILLAH opv 90 Meter.

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Another video from FB on OPV90#1 KRI Haji Fisabilillah sea trial. This OPV like other Domestic build Corvette (like KRI Bung Hatta) most likely will have Roketsan Atmaca SSM and Shorad SAM, which is not clear yet which Shorad will be taken.

The Shorad SAM if using present TNI-AL standard, then it will be MBDA Mistral. However considering tendency for Roketsan getting traction in TNI missile procurement, potentially it can be Sungur Roketsan - SUNGUR Air Defence Missile System, which basically Roketsan answer for Mistral.

Considering that Roketsan already sign JV agreement with Republikorp to build missile assembly in Indonesia. Cakir, Atmaca and Sungut are some of missiles that the JV will assembly in Indonesia.

If this JV development come to smooth implementation, then much more likely Roketsan missiles can become standard in TNI. Something that Frenchie salesman keep yapping about on Turkification due to loosing sales. Looking to Indonesian enthusiasts forum, seems his public campaign against Turkification only results partial support.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

2.8K views · 217 reactions | Sea acceptance test KRI HAJI FISABILILLAH opv 90 Meter | Indonesia Defence Review

Sea acceptance test KRI HAJI FISABILILLAH opv 90 Meter.

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Another video from FB on OPV90#1 KRI Haji Fisabilillah sea trial. This OPV like other Domestic build Corvette (like KRI Bung Hatta) most likely will have Roketsan Atmaca SSM and Shorad SAM, which is not clear yet which Shorad will be taken.

The Shorad SAM if using present TNI-AL standard, then it will be MBDA Mistral. However considering tendency for Roketsan getting traction in TNI missile procurement, potentially it can be Sungur Roketsan - SUNGUR Air Defence Missile System, which basically Roketsan answer for Mistral.

Considering that Roketsan already sign JV agreement with Republikorp to build missile assembly in Indonesia. Cakir, Atmaca and Sungut are some of missiles that the JV will assembly in Indonesia.

If this JV development come to smooth implementation, then much more likely Roketsan missiles can become standard in TNI. Something that Frenchie salesman keep yapping about on Turkification due to loosing sales. Looking to Indonesian enthusiasts forum, seems his public campaign against Turkification only results partial support.

Well, at least we don't use the Seacat anymore. And i also expect all the old Strela's are removed from the Parchims.


The KRI John Lie 358 is now in India for the exercise Samudra Shakti 2025 with the Indian Eastern Fleet.

I think the photo of the article is an old one, because KRI John Lie 358 already got the modernisation, which includes the installation of Thales's TACTICOS Combat Management System, SMART-S Mk2 3D, and STIR 1.2 EO Mk2 radars, a Vigile Mk2 ESM, two new tactical data links and the conversion from Exocet MM40 Block 2 to Block 3.

Samudra Shakti-25: KRI John Lie Fokus Latihan Peperangan Laut Bersama India - Indonesiadefense.com | Informasi Berita Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini Hankam Dan TNI %

Setelah menempuh pelayaran dari Belawan, Sumatra Utara, KRI John Lie-358 resmi sandar di Pangkalan Armada Timur Angkatan Laut India

indonesiadefense.com

 

[deadlast]

Well, at least we don't use the Seacat anymore. And i also expect all the old Strela's are removed from the Parchims.


The KRI John Lie 358 is now in India for the exercise Samudra Shakti 2025 with the Indian Eastern Fleet.

I think the photo of the article is an old one, because KRI John Lie 358 already got the modernisation, which includes the installation of Thales's TACTICOS Combat Management System, SMART-S Mk2 3D, and STIR 1.2 EO Mk2 radars, a Vigile Mk2 ESM, two new tactical data links and the conversion from Exocet MM40 Block 2 to Block 3.

Samudra Shakti-25: KRI John Lie Fokus Latihan Peperangan Laut Bersama India - Indonesiadefense.com | Informasi Berita Terkini dan Terbaru Hari Ini Hankam Dan TNI %

Setelah menempuh pelayaran dari Belawan, Sumatra Utara, KRI John Lie-358 resmi sandar di Pangkalan Armada Timur Angkatan Laut India

indonesiadefense.com

The one that getting those modernization packages is KRI Usman Harun 359, not KRI John Lie 358, and as far as I remember they supposed to finish the MLU by the mid-2024, while we're now on the last few month of 2025 and they still hasn't finished them yet as far as I know.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The one that getting those modernization packages is KRI Usman Harun 359, not KRI John Lie 358, and as far as I remember they supposed to finish the MLU by the mid-2024, while we're now on the last few month of 2025 and they still hasn't finished them yet as far as I know.

So, none of those three vessels already got the modernisation?
That means the article below isn't correct.

3 KRI Jenis Korvet "Upgrade" Rudal Exocet Block 3 dan Radar

3 kapal perang RI (KRI) jenis korvet, yakni KRI Usman Harun-359, KRI Bung Tomo-357, dan KRI John Lie-358 sedang di-upgrade radar dan rudalnya

nasional.kompas.com

I try to search for other news articles, but all those articles only talk about "Indonesian Navy teams up with MBDA...." or "Indonesian Navy sign contract with PT LEN/Thales..." and none of those articles tells about finishing/passing/ending the modernisation.

 

[deadlast]

So, none of those three vessels already got the modernisation?
That means the article below isn't correct.

3 KRI Jenis Korvet "Upgrade" Rudal Exocet Block 3 dan Radar

3 kapal perang RI (KRI) jenis korvet, yakni KRI Usman Harun-359, KRI Bung Tomo-357, dan KRI John Lie-358 sedang di-upgrade radar dan rudalnya

nasional.kompas.com

I try to search for other news articles, but all those articles only talk about "Indonesian Navy teams up with MBDA...." or "Indonesian Navy sign contract with PT LEN/Thales..." and none of those articles tells about finishing/passing/ending the modernisation.

None, KRI Usman Harun MLU were supposed to be the pilot project for Bung Tomo-class modernization, the rest of the class were initially projected to follow similar MLU after Usman Harun done with it & then followed by Diponegoro-class MLU, again by the same vendor.

Don't know what going to happened next though, whether the rest of the class will also receives the same MLU or not due to these delay, still no 'official' news or update on whatever going on with this project as far as I know despite how delayed from the earlier stated schedule it is.

 

[Ananda]

All this backs to PAL shown indication of overstrech themselves in taking orders. Either new build and MRO shown stress of capacities or worse back again to potential cash flow management that cause them projects penalties years ago.

Both New Build projects and MRO shown signs of delayment. Their talk already finishing the MRO R-41 projects, in my opinion streching definition on what already finish or just reducing the scope of projects. MRO of Pinoy Tarlac LPD shown also walking in thin ices.

For me the silver linings are newly builds Patrol, Corvette and OPV are more and more being given to Private Yards. This diversified potential problems with PAL lines.

 

[Ananda]

Just browse and bit digging on latest image of KRI Usman Harun and KRI Fatahillah that supposedly by PT. PAL claim should already finish their MLU as part of R-41 refurbishment project.

Before back a bit on the digital image of MLU program for KRI Usman Harun and latter on its sisters ships.



Then this is the image that claim to be on July this year (Google satelite) and August this year.





So seems the MLU scope of work seems still following the MLU Blue Print. The satelite image also shown the VLS being prepare to be work out. However seems the work progressing slowly. Some claim the VL Mica package already arrive at PAL, but work on sensors integration behind the scheddules.

There are rumours that PAL switch work forces for preparing FMP#1 to be launch/flood out by end of this month or early next month. Which back why PAL is walking in thin ice on balancing work schedulles between MRO and Fabrication work loads.

 

[koxinga]

The three systems are the J-10B multirole fighter aircraft, the Houbei (Type 22) fast attack craft, and an export variant of China's YJ-12 ramjet-powered coastal anti-ship missile known as the CM-302.

The J-10Bs I can understand but the Houbei FACs don't make much sense at all.

Indonesia seeks foreign loans for J-10 fighters, naval systems

Indonesia's Ministry of Finance (MoF) has approved plans for the country to fund the acquisition of three major defence systems from China via foreign loans, and Jakarta...

www.janes.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Just browse and bit digging on latest image of KRI Usman Harun and KRI Fatahillah that supposedly by PT. PAL claim should already finish their MLU as part of R-41 refurbishment project.

Before back a bit on the digital image of MLU program for KRI Usman Harun and latter on its sisters ships.

View attachment 53650

Then this is the image that claim to be on July this year (Google satelite) and August this year.

View attachment 53649

View attachment 53651

So seems the MLU scope of work seems still following the MLU Blue Print. The satelite image also shown the VLS being prepare to be work out. However seems the work progressing slowly. Some claim the VL Mica package already arrive at PAL, but work on sensors integration behind the scheddules.

There are rumours that PAL switch work forces for preparing FMP#1 to be launch/flood out by end of this month or early next month. Which back why PAL is walking in thin ice on balancing work schedulles between MRO and Fabrication work loads.

It is the most logic thing to do, focusing the manpower on the FMP#1 to make space for the export orders. Hopefully the CEO is not an egocentric person, hungry for prestige and image building, and demanding the impossible from his employees.

The J-10Bs I can understand but the Houbei FACs don't make much sense at all.

Indonesia seeks foreign loans for J-10 fighters, naval systems

Indonesia's Ministry of Finance (MoF) has approved plans for the country to fund the acquisition of three major defence systems from China via foreign loans, and Jakarta...

www.janes.com

Agree, doesn't make sense at all. Once again an acquisition purely because of political reasons.

 

[Ananda]

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This Italian FB page claim that Garibaldi already move to Taranto Naval Base for preparation on upgrade and modification work. I don't think the modification work will be done in Taranto, but I suspect in here it will be strip out on equipment specific for Italian Navy roles.

There are still no official info either from Indonesia or Italia the scope of modification. The overall cost of acquisition of Euro +/- 400 mio basically going to cover the upgrade costs. Means in my opinion the ship being sold at much discounted price.

J-10Bs I can understand but the Houbei FACs don't make much sense at all.

That's budget allocations. However it still can be drop and use to other procurement. Like when they bought those two PPA, they drop up quite a number other set budget allocations to finance PPA. The budget allocation also only become effective if Government already pay the down payment from annual budget. The DP in the average of 10%-15% are the ones that government finances cash. While the others using credit lines either from Domestic or International Financial Instution

Point is, even already being set budget allocations, it is still not a done deal. Everything still can be switch until effective already. The one that rumours close to be effective is the USD 1.6 bio being set for J-10. There are also talk another set allocation for upgrade job for Fighters. It can be for J-10 as further upgrade for F-16 C/D being told already being drop.

 

[koxinga]

It is not an allocation question, but why are Houbei FACs even being considered?

They are short endurance, fast attack craft. Capability wise, they don't offer anything new and is within the capabilities of local shipyards.

 

[Ananda]

There are talks on choke points defense, and that's where Shore Based Missile like YJ-12 and FAC/FMB come to equition. The FMB already in production by local shipyards, so yes this Houbei Acquisition are not clear the purpose.

I can only base my prediction on Indonesia political and defense thinking so far:

1. The need to build up chocke points defense consider main priority. Thus Houbei being procure to augment local build FMB.
2. Just like procure 2 Turkiye build FMB as KCR 70, Turkiye then provide tech transfer to local yards for their own KCR 60. Perhaps China also going to provide Tech Transfer for FMB of similar designs to local yards.
3. Consolation price as rumours that Indonesia will drop procurement of Type 52D or Type 54 for more Euro Frigates.

Well that's my speculation on why Houbei come to consideration. YJ-12 Shore Bases defense in my opinion more likely come to procurement then Houbei. Who knows Houbei actually come as bonus for YJ-12 procurement. It is talk that at least 12 battery of YJ-12 being procure so quite substantial procurement.

 

[StevoJH]

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why Indonesia is purchasing so many different platforms from different vendors? Most of them having different sensor and system fittouts from each other.

it just seems like a logistical nightmare.

 

[Arji]

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why Indonesia is purchasing so many different platforms from different vendors? Most of them having different sensor and system fittouts from each other.

it just seems like a logistical nightmare.

The politically correct reason is that we need new boats to replace our old ones at a rate our local shipyards can't supply. But, Indonesian politics being what it is, a new program is usually a means to funnel government funds to certain party, so these kinds of decision have nothing to do with technical and operational needs and everything to do with giving business to political friends of the current regime.

 

[Ananda]

Just add on @Arji explanation:

1. Geopolitic wise, Non Allign priciple means to diversified supplies origin, not to depend on one sources or one side. Thus the mantra of ITAR free come as priciple of diversification,
2. Provide Tech Transfer bargaining from mature suppliers to local industry,
3. Local Politics, well @Arji already explaining. Just add every brokerage and salesmen have their own lobby. Some of them try to shown themselves as Indonesia Defense Specialist/Analysts. Which is why I'm bit cynical on their claim, and call it rumours until proven.

Mulitiple originated systems in my oppinion not end of world. It is complicating matter, but as I put it in Indonesian AF thread, Pakistan already shown it can work. As long as the network awarenesd can comunicatte through eficient and secure gateway links.

Either using Skytalys data link management or LEN Link ID, MinDef and TNI already working there.



LEN show case publicly their Link ID already begin to connect and interacted simultanously and real time between CMS from different manufacturer. Alltough the example still come from NATO base suppliers (Danish and Turkey).

So far TNI AL CMS are coming from Thales, Terma, Havelsan, Leonardo, and local LEN. The first two PAL KCR 60 using China and Russia combo sensors and weapon. However I'm not quite sure on CMS whether Chinese or Russian.

So yes it is adverse on sensible logistical footprint. TNI-AL have to adjust on diversified the logistics center, while TNI-AU as I put in the Indonesia AF thread diversified logistics base on Area. Something shown Eastern Indonesia will be handle by Chinese and Russian base fighters, while Western Indonesia will be handle more by Western (French, US) base Fighters.

Not an ideal approach but as Indonesian politics is full compromise, so does the procurement diversification are Geopolitics and Internal Politics compromises.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Diversification of defence equipment is good, because it is simply not a smart move to be dependent from one supplier/country. But the level of diversification of Indonesia is just ridiculous and unnecessary.

 

[Ananda]

But the level of diversification of Indonesia is just ridiculous and unnecessary.

Yes it is, so what I put is mostly how MinDef and TNI has to goes miles more to adjust the effects of this political choices being made. Adjustment in logistics foot print by creating different set of MRO regime and center on certain area, or creating more modust but complex common gateway data links, etc. All increase the costs more then just two sides differsifications as example.

However there are effort to standardise, toward Leonardo and Asselsan/Havelsan gun and system, Roketsan and MBDA missiles. Still those looking sales guys that before chanting about standarisation, now throw black campaign because the choosen winner are not theirs merchandise.

There will always be assets from Russia, Belarus or China due to Geopilitics policy that being mentions before. However I do see more than half in future will come from Thales, Leonardo and Aselsan (on system wise) base tech. Even being manufacturing locally.

For that I always becarefull reading opinions that come from/originate from those local analyst, at social media, forums and even large media. The info are mixed between real assessment and marketing even black campaign.