Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

ROKETSAN Exhibits Its Newest Systems in DIMDEX 2024 | TURDEF

ROKETSAN has brought its existing and new munitions and weapon systems to the DIMDEX 2024 exhibition.

turdef.com

The Navy are notorious with their FFBNW mentality. Having big magazine VLS is nice, if they are loaded. If they are empty, it's like having an army of archers with large quivers but no arrows. What's the point?

FFBNW mentality coming from the condition of budget limitations. I put Roketsan naval Hisar and Siper news above shown why MinDef looking on Roketsan option and not just MBDA. It's all back to costs. MBDA missiles is more expensive then Roketsan ones, thus simply not affordable to go all the way on MBDA.

Before MinDef try to combine MBDA and Chinese suppliers, now seems they try to combine MBDA with Roketsan. In the end the basic reasoning back to the costs. With that condition, how they can expect to fill large amount of VLS ?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I don't get the DDG obsession. FMP - which is based on Iver class has space for 32 cell mk 41, and the Iver has 2 additional 16 cell mk 56. The 2 mk 56, can probably be replaced with 2 8-cell mk 41 modules, bringing the total VLS magazine to 48. They can quad pack some w/ ESSMs. Let's say keep the original 32 cell mk 41 with Standard SAM, then the 2 8-cell modules with 64 ESSM. Or use Aster 30 and quad pack Seaceptor. That's DDG level load. We have not even addressed the 4 spots for the quad Harpoon on the Iver, which they can convert to more VLS.

You are spot on about enough missile inventory. The Navy are notorious with their FFBNW mentality. Having big magazine VLS is nice, if they are loaded. If they are empty, it's like having an army of archers with large quivers but no arrows. What's the point?

The solution can be the Iranian Moudge/Moj class of 'destroyers'. Enlarge them a little bit, put some 150 MANPADS on it, and then we have a Heavy Air Defence Missile Destroyer for very low costs......

Really a genius idea.




The destroyer obsession is as fanboyish as the obsession to have an aircraft carrier.
We don't urgently need them and we don't have the budget for it. Unless we got some empty FFBNW hulls.

It is exactly the same with the airforce, 33 F-16s and two batteries of NASAMS, but only 36 AIM-120s in the inventory.

 

[swerve]

I don't get the DDG obsession. FMP - which is based on Iver class has space for 32 cell mk 41, and the Iver has 2 additional 16 cell mk 56. The 2 mk 56, can probably be replaced with 2 8-cell mk 41 modules, bringing the total VLS magazine to 48. They can quad pack some w/ ESSMs. ...

The Mk56 is much shorter than Mk41. Depending on the length, the Mk 41 would need 2 or 3 metres more depth below deck, & on the Iver Huitfeldt, I think that putting Mk41 into the same positions as the Mk56 might block access between the areas forward & aft of the current Mk41 launchers, & require some internal rearrangement.

 

[Meriv90]

It's very funny to me that a lot of Indonesians are insisting that this is for a separate requirement that the Chinese 052 offer is supposed to fill and not the same one.


Also, the FREMM offer supposedly includes the transfer of 2 U-212NFS submarines as well.

Are you sure 212NFS? We still dont have them, it could be the normal 212, but that would be a complete new deal like the scorpene one. Or probably are you referring to the Sauro?

Sauro-class submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Still in service but in dismission and that could be thrown in the deal.

 

[koxinga]

No, those very new, not yet commissioned 212NFS are the (reportedly) subject for sale.

After all, if brand new, uncommissioned PPAs can be sold, why not these subs?

 

[Meriv90]

PPAs were tested and in service, the 212NFS would have another price, and you would risk launch client risk like us.
If you wanna put the money in I mean more than gladly. The price tag should be around 500mln.
Increasing now the numbers during production is way better than a later order.

 

[Ananda]

Fincantieri offer on U212 is on going sales program. What's not clear whether it is new build, or the ones in the building process or the ones already in operational status. So it could be U212A or U212NFS.

MinDef and TNI-AL have newly build program and interim program. From my understanding Scorpene belong to newly build program, while the program that Fincantieri offer from my understanding belong to interim program. Interim program seems indicating to ready to use assets.

For that the rumours on the candidates are Reactivate DSME/Hanwha 209-1400 Batch 2 contract, Fincantieri U212 offer and Wuchang S26T. Those are the ones that lobbies on the program. Personally I suspect at this moment all three still has similar chances.

 

[Ananda]

Keris FB put screenshot from Havelsan Annual report. Basically Havelsan already secure CMS for KCR-60 and OPV-90 and FMP will be use system from Havelsan and Italian ELT. This further shown indication that FMP potentially use combine system and weapons from Turkiye and Italy (Aselsan and Leonardo).