Certainly interesting, have read elsewhere that the price has been jacked up from the quoted $65m (USD) to $120m (USD) per unit !!
Indian Military Aviation; News, Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Twinblade
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Certainly interesting, have read elsewhere that the price has been jacked up from the quoted $65m (USD) to $120m (USD) per unit !!
I don't blame Dassault at all for not being happy with that, but that's what they agreed to. Must've thought the Indian Govt would cave in on that demand or that it was negotiable.
Trouble is, this is a big profile procurement project. So as usual, pinch of salt required. After all, for every article saying it's in trouble there is an equal amount saying it's all ahead full.
Trouble is, this is a big profile procurement project. So as usual, pinch of salt required. After all, for every article saying it's in trouble there is an equal amount saying it's all ahead full.
Dassault disputes having agreed to it. On record as saying "Where in the RFP is this requirement? Which page?", or words to that effect. Dassault's public position is that it's a condition introduced after the RFP, & one they've never agreed to.
It's a crazy condition.
The price change is supposedly due to the aircraft now being negotiated for being higher spec. than that originally offered. With the long drawn out nature of Indian procurements, that must be hard to avoid.
It's a crazy condition.
The price change is supposedly due to the aircraft now being negotiated for being higher spec. than that originally offered. With the long drawn out nature of Indian procurements, that must be hard to avoid.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Hard to believe that Daussault would cover the costs due to a Indian company's failure to perform. If they had, India would likely be showing the signed agreement to French media.
Clearly Daussault needed this order. Given India's past procurement horror shows, Daussault's competitors should be thankful they lost. I can only guess at the extent of the problems with regard to the joint India-Russia 5th Gen fighter project and which of the two countries is most responsible.
Clearly Daussault needed this order. Given India's past procurement horror shows, Daussault's competitors should be thankful they lost. I can only guess at the extent of the problems with regard to the joint India-Russia 5th Gen fighter project and which of the two countries is most responsible.
A state owned company at that.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Given our procurement problems in Canada, reading about India reminds me we are basically not much better. The only real success either country has had is the aquisition of transport aircraft.
Indian Defense Secretary in France for Rafale Talks
IAF official hit the nail on the head, if HAL was a private company rather than state-owned, the deal would probably have been agreed by now.
It's not great news when Indian MOD officials are openly saying how Su-30 with upgraded EW suites are a viable alternative.
IAF official hit the nail on the head, if HAL was a private company rather than state-owned, the deal would probably have been agreed by now.
It's not great news when Indian MOD officials are openly saying how Su-30 with upgraded EW suites are a viable alternative.
It would be smarter as well - one thing the Indians need to do is stop buying in and maintaining so many types. Okay, spares and aftersales sucks for the Russian kit but if they pick *one* frigging airframe that'd be better than the half dozen they appear to be set on running.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
No doubt the Russians would be willing to offer extremely aggressive pricing too.....and the Indians don't seem to mind the Russians screwing them around with poor support. Daussault is likely worried by such comments. Here's another angle, Putin says to France "give me my Mistrals and I will have Sukhoi back off".
Yup, if I'm crying into my beer about FRES or Nimrod, I just have a look and see how India is doing and then start offering thanks to the Gods.
If I'm only a bit fed up, I peruse Canadian or Australian procurement stories.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Hard to say who worse at procurement, Canada or Australia, probably the former. Here's a link to a recent report about Canada's procurement issues.
'Dysfunctional' DND Purchasing Result of Brain Drain, Staff Cuts, Red Tape: Report (excerpt)
Because they bought them off the shelf, through FMS...
We have even stuffed up FMS purchases. We 'forgot' to acquire the satellite comms component of our M1A1 tank acquisition through FMS for instance, and it took years to put it in place and develop the full capability of that platform...
Such wasn't a major issue, just meant we couldn't use BFT for a bit...
Yes we could
With no Sat Comm capability?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Now that Dassault has 24 jets on order for Egypt and 36 pending with Qatar, their bargaining position has improved with regards to negotiations with HAL. It will be interesting to watch the progress (assuming there is some).
India and BAE are in discussion to evaluate the ability to arm India's Hawk fleet with weapons which are currently used on their Jaguar fleet.
Aero India 2015: BAE Systems in talks to weaponise India's Hawks - IHS Jane's 360
The aim is to see if the Hawk could be good for strike coordinated armed recce missions as well as CAS missions.
Selected weapons include ASRAAM and APKWS as well as Litening targetting pods. It also includes "a range of smart weapons" which aren't expanded on.
It'll be cool to see some armed Hawks if it goes ahead.
Aero India 2015: BAE Systems in talks to weaponise India's Hawks - IHS Jane's 360
The aim is to see if the Hawk could be good for strike coordinated armed recce missions as well as CAS missions.
Selected weapons include ASRAAM and APKWS as well as Litening targetting pods. It also includes "a range of smart weapons" which aren't expanded on.
It'll be cool to see some armed Hawks if it goes ahead.
It's official, India have put down a firm order for 36 Rafale aircraft to be built in France to be delivered as soon as possible. This was announced today. Preceding this announcement was a few days of speculation of India buying 60+ aircraft to be built in France.
PM Narendra Modi in Paris - LIVE: Rafale deal struck, France to invest 2 billion Euros in India | Zee News
https://mobile.twitter.com/EconomicTimes/status/586577566871457792
L'Inde commande 36 avions Rafale à Paris
In terms of further orders, it just seems to be that negotiations for a larger order are still ongoing.
Still, good for India as they need more aircraft, good for Dassault as their assembly line gets more work (36 instead of 18 aircraft IIRC) and just overall good news for everybody. It'll be interesting to see what happens next, are the negotiations for building them in India still going to take sufficiently long that in the name of getting a good number of aircraft to the IAF this step is being made?
Just thought, keeping the production line going increases the time for Qatar/UAE/Malaysia to make up their minds for if they want Rafale or not.
I want to read about follow on MBDA weapons packages.
PM Narendra Modi in Paris - LIVE: Rafale deal struck, France to invest 2 billion Euros in India | Zee News
https://mobile.twitter.com/EconomicTimes/status/586577566871457792
L'Inde commande 36 avions Rafale à Paris
In terms of further orders, it just seems to be that negotiations for a larger order are still ongoing.
Still, good for India as they need more aircraft, good for Dassault as their assembly line gets more work (36 instead of 18 aircraft IIRC) and just overall good news for everybody. It'll be interesting to see what happens next, are the negotiations for building them in India still going to take sufficiently long that in the name of getting a good number of aircraft to the IAF this step is being made?
Just thought, keeping the production line going increases the time for Qatar/UAE/Malaysia to make up their minds for if they want Rafale or not.
I want to read about follow on MBDA weapons packages.