India needs 3 more aircraft carriers: Navy chief

[Awang se]

Aircraft carriers is an offensive weapons. I want to question the India's motives in this approach. are they a defensive measures or an attempt to become another world bullies. India don't need an aircraft carriers since very few countries in this world is able to launch an offensive against the countries far from their borders. the only potential enemy for the indians is Pakistan, Iran and china. all within convenient range of India home base.

this kind of act could only sparks the arms races that already plague the South Asia and maybe in south east Asia since the carriers will enable India to project their air power here to. I could only view this purchase as an offensive act by India and i strongly suggest that India scrap the plan and spends instead on Destroyers and Cruisers or air defence aircraft.

 

[Oqaab]

Anyways, an aircraft carriar is a waste of money. But India wants to be a reagional power and thats why it is purchasing carriars.

 

[Red aRRow]

Nice analysis Awang Se.
I think this massive acquisition of arms by India is unnecessary as these are not defensive weapons and thus i see them as an unjustice to the poor people of India.

 

[Awang se]

With the currently acquiered SU-30MKI and upcoming Brahmos, India is already has a formidable defences, not to mention the nuke that they already own

 

[Su_37]

Hey ,,, well my dear friend, indian is poised to become Blue water navy which mean an country can conduct operation far away from its home base.

Foe be a blue water navy india required Aircraft carrier in both fronts.

 

[Awang se]

What is the motives of this blue water navy? is it enough with China's carriers. We in south east Asia don't want to be caught in the middle of the India-China carrier battle since my country located in the middle of the waterways between east and west and not to mention the US carriers that will tag along.

 

[The Watcher]

India does not need a blue water navy... only "enemy" india has is Pakistan and that means it doesn't need blue water navy in order to tackle that problem.

Besides, you don't come blue water navy by buying decades old used up A/Cs and ships! Blue water navies are HOME grown!

 

[gf0012-aust]

People are misunderstanding what a "blue water" navy is.

A blue water navy is a nation that has permanent naval fleets based in the 3 major oceams, plus the mediteranean sea.

The only navy that is blue water by that definition are the americans. They have 7 fleets in constant placement. (and 12 Nuclear Carrier Battle Groups distributed amongst that fleet structure)

A capacity to deploy your navy into an ocean does not make it a blue water navy, it makes them blue water assets - period.

If India is looking at 4 carriers then that means that in normal deployment it will have 3 in service at any one time. The 4th will be out of cycle and laid up for maintenance.

That means at a strategic level India is going to have 1 Carrier Battle Group either side of the Indian mainland, and 1 battle group on a loose leash.

IF India is going to have 3 active carrier battle groups, then it will also need to invest in appropriate escorts, long range maritime patrols (and India is going to buy 12 ex USN Orion P3C's).

It also means that India is going to have to develop an integrated patrol, escort and CV doctrine. That is something that is not learnt overnight and will take a number of years to fine tune. It also means that there will be a few Russians training Indians in the processes.

At the end of the day, it also means that India will need to consider buying hunter killer subs to protect each deployed fleet.

 

[Awang se]

i think India currently operate an Akula SSN they rent from the Russian. Looks like they going to buy SSNs to in the future. probably as part of the carrier force development package.

 

[gf0012-aust]

i think India currently operate an Akula SSN they rent from the Russian. Looks like they going to buy SSNs to in the future. probably as part of the carrier force development package.

Its normal for a Carrier Battle Group to have SSK's acting in concert as part of the protective layer.

SSN's would normally be autonomous. Going to a Gorshkov sized carrier will be completely different as far as flight and escort operations go.

The battle group would need to be spread out wider, and as the principle vessel is rather big, that makes her reasonably valuable.

American CV battle groups used to have 2 x SSK's in "tow". I would think that the Indian model would be similar in that respect rather than based on the Russian battle group model

 

[Awang se]

Make sense, i wonder if India going to buy a cruiser class ship to complete the escort list, or they just satisfied with the destroyers.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Its a high value asset, India uses Russian guided missile class destoryers which favour the use of heavy firepower. They are more lethal than an old style "cruiser" in absolute fire power terms.

CV battle groups require heavy screening at both the ASW and air defence layer.

That isn't a capability that India has developed fully yet

 

[jatt2ooo]

:cop :cop mmm this is making me think. if i wanted to be a big player i would...start bombing crapy countries ind africa that are under dictators. why? cause it sometimes shows your power and makes u look good. india can bring an army in but they'll need bombers. It could be part of a plan to play a majour role in peace keeping operations and helping india become a un secerty member. :? :? :? i would want carriers also to help freindly countries or show my military power.!

 

[ullu]

India's army came and sat on our border with NO courage to attack us... and you are talking about bombing another country thousands of miles away? Lets just say Indian army doesn't have what it takes to go out and bomb another country on another continent. You guys need to worry and deal with Pakistan/china first before dreaming about how you can be like Uncle Sam. :finger

:!: Edited. Ah, forget it. He is banned now. But avoid flamming.

Oqaab :!:

 

[Winter]

That scenario is wholly ridiculous, jatt2ooo/ullu...

 

[Su_37]

Well Well ... this is what india is doing . Its a 2015th year planning india is doing now . by 2015 india will have 3 aircraft carrier operational , two ADS for defence on both front and one big one for petrol , india is also buying large no of marintime plane from America.

Buying Long range TU 22M bomber, plus nuclear sub, and also making efforts of its own nuclear sub., .... Lonf tearm strategy , plan 2015 ....Think big .. blue water

 

[Winter]

Well Well ... this is what india is doing . Its a 2015th year planning india is doing now . by 2015 india will have 3 aircraft carrier operational , two ADS for defence on both front and one big one for petrol , india is also buying large no of marintime plane from America.

Buying Long range TU 22M bomber, plus nuclear sub, and also making efforts of its own nuclear sub., .... Lonf tearm strategy , plan 2015 ....Think big .. blue water

So whats the purpose then? The need as indentified?...Other than to look particularly sexy and impressive to the neighbours?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Well Well ... this is what india is doing . Its a 2015th year planning india is doing now . by 2015 india will have 3 aircraft carrier operational , two ADS for defence on both front and one big one for petrol , india is also buying large no of marintime plane from America.

Buying Long range TU 22M bomber, plus nuclear sub, and also making efforts of its own nuclear sub., .... Lonf tearm strategy , plan 2015 ....Think big .. blue water

I can't see India pulling off a Tu-22M deal, they are bloody terrible to get parts for, even the Russians are having probs maintaining their air elements.

India is moving away from Russia for long range interdiction air assets as the Russian kit is getting long in the tooth and they cannot source parts for opflight maintenance.

I would bet that apart from the 12 P3 Orions they are sourcing from the US, they will also move towards refitted commercials for LRMP/EW.

They are already suffering intermittent support probs with the Mainstays.

They may have 3 carriers floating by 2015 but the fleet doctrine issues will be embryonic. Carrier battle groups require a lot of steam time for training and doctrine development. They can't pick that up straight away. They haven't really developed it in the past, so its not an issue of saying "we had 3 carriers before, theres no learning curve".

Fleet management in the 21st century battle theatre is completely different from pre 2000-2001.

 

[sukhoiman]

India will probably get the gorshkv and also build an indigenous ADS. It wont be a large strain on resources as india is getting gorshkov free and paying only for the refit and the ADS will be a more compact Air defence ship equipped with the naval LCA which is indigenous.

As for poverty, go to the cia world factbook,

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

and go to both india and pak, india's poverty is 25% and pak is 35%.....

then look at their respective spending on military, India's was 2.3% last year and pak's was 4.6%.

Traditionally, spending was 2.5% in india on average whereas pak has spent as high as 8% in the past.....so who is the one that is depriving their poor more...and it shows.....according to a U.N report, Pak's poverty has increased over the last decade from 20% to 35% whereas indias has decreased from 40% to 25%. Indias literacy also increased sharply from 45% to 65% currently whereas paks managed only an incerase from 38% to 46%. Clearly someone needs to improve in their perfromance here. Whereas india is charging ahead and looks set to compete with china on all fronts, pak is left with an economy the size of belgium's.

While agree that there is a lot left to be done in india, india has shown that it is addressing these problems in full swing (the BJP that is, congress are laggards as shown by the economic performance from 1950 to 1990) and look set to get a bright prosperous future. Pak on the other hand has a dimmer future unless the govt can seriously get a grip on its problems and focus more on helping its poeple both poor and middle class rather than moan and groan about kashmir.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Gorshkov is a poisoned chalice, it was free based on conditional purchases of an air wing plus the russian EW and Weaps systems.

India doesn't want the russian EW and weaps systems as it prefers some Israeli solutions. This is still a sticking point for the purchase.

The cost of an air wing and the add ons would be as much as the outright purchase price, something that India would have been far better off doing as it would not then have come with caveats