Importance of A-10 Thunderbolt (warthog)

[south]

1. The F-35's internal load will allow it to fly a more stable profile while caring asymmetrical loads (ie after dropping a few PGMs).

2. As a general rule, the heavier something is the less it is affected by outside influences (wind buffet, gun vibration, etc).

Ohh yeah, wasn't trying to dodge, just 10 minutes ago was like so 1980s. Well still the same issues in particular the weight. The F-35 is around the same side surface area as an F/A-18 but about 30% more weight. Similar relationship with the F-16. Harder to move with cross winds and turbulence.

Sorry for the late reply Ive been busy...

I agree that weight has a factor, but here was me thinking that stability of an aircraft comes from things like CofG, Moment of inertia, wing sweep, dihedral, taper (general wing design actually) and the design of the FCS... The fact that the F-35 has all of its weight wrapped tightly around its core could potentially make it less stable in roll than some other types....Its going to be impossible for any of us to put a number to it anyway...

Spud - given what you are trying to argue wrt assymetry will not the F-35's non symmetric gun placement make it less stable than the centreline arrangement of say an FA-18 or an A-10?... I also highly highly doubt that in a pure CAS mission that the F-35 will not fly with external stores, else its going to be limited to 2 bombs which is just dumb, unless in an high threat scenario. Fact is that assymetry is not that big a deal, otherwise you would see all those FA-18's flying around goofy configured.

Abe thats a nice video but isnt going to produce good weapons effects with a 20mm cannon, however i guess you got me!!

 

[SpudmanWP]

The F-35s (including the B) can carry 8 internal SDBs. Given that CAS is being handled more and more by PGMs, I think that the 8xSDB loadout will be a standard loadout for most missions.

 

[Belesari]

Sorry for the late reply Ive been busy...

I agree that weight has a factor, but here was me thinking that stability of an aircraft comes from things like CofG, Moment of inertia, wing sweep, dihedral, taper (general wing design actually) and the design of the FCS... The fact that the F-35 has all of its weight wrapped tightly around its core could potentially make it less stable in roll than some other types....Its going to be impossible for any of us to put a number to it anyway...

Spud - given what you are trying to argue wrt assymetry will not the F-35's non symmetric gun placement make it less stable than the centreline arrangement of say an FA-18 or an A-10?... I also highly highly doubt that in a pure CAS mission that the F-35 will not fly with external stores, else its going to be limited to 2 bombs which is just dumb, unless in an high threat scenario. Fact is that assymetry is not that big a deal, otherwise you would see all those FA-18's flying around goofy configured.

Abe thats a nice video but isnt going to produce good weapons effects with a 20mm cannon, however i guess you got me!!

Its not as bad as all that. The A-10 fleet is supposed to be unpgraded more so it is as acurate as anything else would be with bomb dropping department. Also the A-10s tooling was kept so at a later date if they want to do a upgrade and build more of the aircraft while using the existing frame its still there.

Plus, unless the airforce destroys the aircraft there is always the chance the Army or Marines might go after them. Army should have CAS anyways.........

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Here is something cool the Army put out a idea for something called the "Mudfighter" back in the 80's or so. Idea was a cheap, easy to operate light ground attack aircraft for CAS missions. It had to be easy to maintaine. Small enough to be touted around in a box and very manuverable.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9LlHcX8lg"]Turbofan Killer Bee: Rutan ARES "Mudfighter" for U.S. Army Close Air Support - YouTube[/nomedia]

One of the ways the designers succeded was to take the gun and put it on the right side and the intake on the other. The gun also had a system that when it fired it kept the nose on target so it was very acurrate.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_ARES"]Scaled Composites ARES - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Quite interesting Hell Maybe we could get it going.

 

[south]

I highly doubt that you will see 8xSDB as a standard CAS loadout...Last stuff that I have seen says the SDB is perhaps less than optimal for CAS - (not saying that it always will be) hence you aren't seeing many jets flying around in Afghanistan with SDB... I think that most users would rather have laser JDAM GBU54... The SDB is always going to be limited by the size of the bang... Havent heard anything more about the time of flight issues that they were having (as mentioned in the second article) and if they have been fixed.

SDB "not a good CAS weapon"

Weapons Development: the Case of the Small Diameter Bomb I Block 9 | SLDInfo

 

[gf0012-aust]

I highly doubt that you will see 8xSDB as a standard CAS loadout...Last stuff that I have seen says the SDB is perhaps less than optimal for CAS - (not saying that it always will be) hence you aren't seeing many jets flying around in Afghanistan with SDB... I think that most users would rather have laser JDAM GBU54... The SDB is always going to be limited by the size of the bang... Havent heard anything more about the time of flight issues that they were having (as mentioned in the second article) and if they have been fixed.

the problem is that its another selective spin on a capability.

nearly all of the in depth CAS in afghanistan to special forces and LR big army has been by SDB carrying heavies....

certainly thats what I'm seeing, and I trust my sources more than I trust AW&T because they're operational sources

 

[south]

I'm sure youre right, however thats a bit of apples and oranges in as much as we are talking about a F-35 loadout as opposed to a Heavy bomber loadout- with heavy you have the payload to carry more than one munition type as well which gives you the operational flexibility to give the guys on the ground what they need... I bet the heavies didnt carry only SDB's at the expense of also toting some 500/1000/2000lbs as well..

 

[SpudmanWP]

There are two reasons that SDBs are not used more often.
1. They are only cleared for the is the F-15E
2. GPS is not accurate enough for close-in CAS (hence the preference for LJDAMs)

SDB2 (with its tri-mode seeker) solves both of these issues (and was the version that I was referring to).

 

[gf0012-aust]

I bet the heavies didnt carry only SDB's at the expense of also toting some 500/1000/2000lbs as well..

loadout is always going to be a mission centric decision.

they'll carry whatever the job requires. CAS has invariably been about pgms when supporting sof missions... that doesn't mean that they are not carting other ord (non pgm)