How would PAF deal with the possible threat from indian Su-30mki?

[VICTORA1]

Jacob,
Iraq may have claimed to whatever it had, but they were not first rate pilots nor first rate army. They were absolutely third rate pilots and a third rate army.

As I wrote one time before, most of the iraqi planes shot down in the first gulf war, their pilots didnot even know when they died. Their brains didnot have the time to see the incoming missiles on the aircrafts radar till the time it obliterated the airplane. A missile travelling at 5+ time the speed of sound, is not an easy object to locate with a obsolete onboard radar. Faster than a mile a second----a radar capable of 3 to 5 mile radius----is like shooting ducks with their wings clipped, in your friendly neighbours pond.

 

[adsH]

Its the man that counts more than the machine

Sometimes that's not true.Even an average Indian Pilot in an MKI can destroy the best Pakistani pilot in an F-16.

Wars of the 21st century will be fought on technology.This is not an ancient world where people fight face to face.Wars are won on advavced weaponry.

The most recent examples are those of the US in Afghanistan & Iraq.Iraq claimed to have the best of the pilots & soldiers.But what they didn't have was technology.The same fate may meet Pakistan if doesn't modernise its forces.

Jacob no offense Mate but there is alot more that counts in war then just technology, tech provides an edge over your adversary. In PAF scenario the Platforms they use the F-16 are Obsolete but have uptodate radars and some electronics, which make them not Ancient but third gen third grade compared to the MKI (the fact is no one knows what PAF has on these F-16). and to be clear here. The US DOD minimum requirement to maintain a Man in the loop is not just for a laugh!! there is distinct purpose for this decision, a First class Elite pilot sitting in an F-16 would be able to take down an Average Mki Pilot (not necessarily true). this is what i think. the PAF F-16 which would have no long-range weaponry would like to Close the distance between its target and engage the MKI in a dog fight. i hope you don't believe a dog fight can be won by superior technology, it can't you need superior vison multitasking ability and alot of concentration along with other supporting equipments and last but not least to be Suitable for the Task and have plenty of Training along with real war experience ie flight time in combat Zones. the PAF F-16 Pilots are senior War veteran which have have had plenty of training and war experience. I'm sure IAF has had similar sort of training programs, But For PAF its alot easier because there only offensive AC at the moment is F-16.

 

[iceman_f15]

I would like to add that Su-30 MKI with the engines with thrust-vectoring nozzles enable the Su-30MKI to perform such maneuvers as «cobra» vertical reverse, roll in «bell» turn in «cobra» etc. In these maneuvers, an angle of attack can reach 180o. These are not purely aerobatic maneuvers: this supermaneuverability can be effectively used in combat. As for the F-16 and F-18 aircraft, their maximum angles of attack are 30o and 40o, respectively, and they cannot use armament at supercritical angles of attack.
In terms of conventional maneuverability characteristics, all these fighters are very similar. However, according to preliminary assessments, the Su-30MKI’s supermaneuverability gives it a 30-percent superiority over its competitors in close air combat. Aircraft multiple capabilities put into the forefront the problem of effective weapon employment. To solve this problem, the Su-30MKI has a copilot/operator to improve the crew’s performance, weapon employment efficiency and provide for group missions.

So even with the average pilot Su-30 MKI can match a good pilot in F-16 and for teh record Su-30 MKI that INDIA has are flow only by Senior pilots with good flying and combat experience.

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison-f16-f18-su30-1.html

 

[iceman_f15]

So to be realistic PAF needs to get modern fighter planes like the Eurofighter typhoon or Rafael. Also, adding force Mutiplers would benefir PAF like the AWACS capability. For all the present and future air supremacy will be purely on BVR capability. Ofcourse training counts but technology gives you the unsurpassable edge. The edge that wins the war.!! .

 

[Paxter]

Regarding the SU 30 vs F-16 vs F-18

we can probably see how great the SU 30 really is when it arrives in malaysia (SU 30 MKM) i am sure our pilots would test them against the FA-18D which malaysia has... i remember the last wargames the FA-18s were whoop out of the sky by MIG 29N which already has BVR capability and an upgraded radar... cant remember what its called but one thing for sure they already have R-77 adder, and AA-10 Alamo in their inventory... and when the SU-30 MKM arrives they could be armed with it as well

love those stripes on that plane

btw is that the AA-10 Alamo on the plane?

 

[Paxter]

oh sorry wana add one more thing the wargames was against RAAF F/A 18s and they got shot down(simulated) by R-77s but the MIG 29N lost to sea harriers....

 

[XEROX]

Would it really be a failed mission if the MKI engaged in WVR considering its BVR missile range is between 50 and 80KM and its radar range is 150/60km - It sees first and shoots first

 

[kashifshahzad]

Would it really be a failed mission if the MKI engaged in WVR considering its BVR missile range is between 50 and 80KM and its radar range is 150/60km - It sees first and shoots first

Really cant understand that i think you want to say that the MKI's radar's range is 150/160 KM and the Missile range is 50-80 KM yeah this gives and edge that first the MKI sees that how many and which type and how much capable planes are comming to attack then it can ingage with the enemies if the matter becomes serious then there are chances of dogfight but the comming years of the AC's will be like that of i give you an example that F-22 raptor kills 5 F-15's without being seen to them intresting han but US will never pass this kind of tech to the other . The other countries do try but i think they copy e.g China is trying to make J-XX which will be stealth

 

[sinwave2]

The PAF is likely to get good fighters such as the JF-17 and the J-10. Think they should be enough. However the numbers would be too small to make an impact, I think. With 300 plus SU-30s likely to be inducted in the IAF, along with 50 Mirages 2000 / 2000-5s and about 60 odd MiG-29s, not to forget the likely acquisition of somw 126 MRCA (whatever that means), PAF needs a better class of aircraft like the EF-2000, and at least 300 plus. Anyone knows the cost of the EF-2000. Can the PAF afford it ?:coffee

 

[adsH]

Would it really be a failed mission if the MKI engaged in WVR considering its BVR missile range is between 50 and 80KM and its radar range is 150/60km - It sees first and shoots first

Data Links and Awacs have to be counted inn in the equation. Solo Engagements are out of the question.

 

[kashifshahzad]

The PAF is likely to get good fighters such as the JF-17 and the J-10. Think they should be enough. However the numbers would be too small to make an impact, I think. With 300 plus SU-30s likely to be inducted in the IAF, along with 50 Mirages 2000 / 2000-5s and about 60 odd MiG-29s, not to forget the likely acquisition of somw 126 MRCA (whatever that means), PAF needs a better class of aircraft like the EF-2000, and at least 300 plus. Anyone knows the cost of the EF-2000. Can the PAF afford it ?:coffee

Yeah yeah this has been discussed here before i know someone here written that how will be the PAF in 2015 he wrote i think

200 F-16's
300 J-F17's
150 J-10's
200 EF-2000
300 Migs
300+ SU's
Mirages ~~
F-7's
100+ AWACS

LOL we cant get these all AC's in 2050 this will require payment spares maintainance training relations with the country get those which are affordable easy to maintain and reqire less time to come in action so mate reamain cool dont think any thing like that again browse the DT forum you will find a lot cheers

 

[mysterious]

Are you serious about this kashifshehzad? Do you know PAF can never afford to maintain so many different types of ACs and in such high numbers?!?! Revision of your or the person you quoted is advised.

 

[pshamim]

Are you serious about this kashifshehzad? Do you know PAF can never afford to maintain so many different types of ACs and in such high numbers?!?! Revision of your or the person you quoted is advised.

I do not think that it is a statement of facts by Kashif. Sounds more like a sarcastic reply to the earlier post.

I agree with you and hopefully Kashif feels the same that it is quite impractical and PAF will never go for this.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Are you serious about this kashifshahzad? Do you know PAF can never afford to maintain so many different types of ACs and in such high numbers?!?! Revision of your or the person you quoted is advised.

I do not think that it is a statement of facts by Kashif. Sounds more like a sarcastic reply to the earlier post.

I agree with you and hopefully Kashif feels the same that it is quite impractical and PAF will never go for this.

Oh ho mates dont take that serious i have seen that kind of thing in forum.The thread is named like this "PAF in 2015"in that thread it was written the same which i have written then there were corrections made by the members .Surely PAF cant afford that kind of AC's fleet there can be addition of single type of AC other then the JF-17 and the F-16's

 

[P.A.F]

listen kashif. PAF can't have/maintain that sort of air force. it would rip out a huge cunch of our budget. the country would be left with more povety. in my view PAF should be like this to make it an effective force to withstand and even blow the su-30 MKI out the skies.
f-16---------------------------------------------->110 including current fleet
jf-17--------------------------------------------->150
Gripen rafale or mirage2k-------------------------->60
and the rest of the older birds like f-7 and mirage ROSE.
all these aircraft should be linked to various AWACs.
PAF would probably struggle to get the above list but it is possible and would not effect the budget too much.

 

[mysterious]

Quite realistic list PAF but I would say the total number of advanced ACs (apart from older F-7s n Mirage ROSE) in PAF should be around 400 as a minimum to counter the threat of ever increasing IAF numbers. I'd say 150 F-16s Block 52+, 200 JF-17s and 50 Rafales. A combination of F-16s and Rafales would surely put naughty Su-30 MKIs to sleep!

 

[ajay_ijn]

Quite realistic list PAF but I would say the total number of advanced ACs (apart from older F-7s n Mirage ROSE) in PAF should be around 400 as a minimum to counter the threat of ever increasing IAF numbers. I'd say 150 F-16s Block 52+, 200 JF-17s and 50 Rafales. A combination of F-16s and Rafales would surely put naughty Su-30 MKIs to sleep!

It was discussed many times before that Rafale was very costly So many countries are not opting for it.
Rafale are Multirole Fighters,So Miarge-2000-5 are more sutied to Air Defence Missions and its better for pakistan to opt for Mirage-20005 or more number of F-16s.
PAF may not have enough money to buy fighters in large numbers which can match or counter MKI.
MKIs are not naughty,they are monster like

what happened to Gripen,Is pakistan trying to get them or i heard the gripen was denied to pak.

 

[pshamim]

what happened to Gripen,Is pakistan trying to get them or i heard the gripen was denied to pak.

Nothing was denied to Pakistan. Every one is waiting for India to make the decision about which 126 aircrafts it will buy. Once that happens, negotiations will open up with Pakistan which needs smaller numbers. Pakistan, in my opinion, is playing the game well and is in a win/win situation.

 

[SABRE]

It was discussed many times before that Rafale was very costly So many countries are not opting for it.
Rafale are Multirole Fighters,So Miarge-2000-5 are more sutied to Air Defence Missions and its better for pakistan to opt for Mirage-20005 or more number of F-16s.
PAF may not have enough money to buy fighters in large numbers which can match or counter MKI.
MKIs are not naughty,they are monster like

what happened to Gripen,Is pakistan trying to get them or i heard the gripen was denied to pak.

You dont worry abt the money. PAF has enough money to buy 75+ F-16s & 40+ of other ACs besides we are not buying them over night. Its slow process & will last till 2018 to 2020.

PAF is no longer interested un Mirage2000 (Mirage2000-9P version).

Gripens were never denied, the weapon system was the problem which put the interest to rest for the time being. Gripens uses some of the US weapons & at that moment US was not willing to supply those weapons. Since US is now willing to sell those weapons because of F-16s the weapon system for Gripens also do not seem much of a problem any more. The Gripens may go back into discussion when India decideds its MRCA package & once Pakistan finalizes its AWACs deal with the Swedes.

 

[ajay_ijn]

You dont worry abt the money. PAF has enough money to buy 75+ F-16s & 40+ of other ACs besides we are not buying them over night. Its slow process & will last till 2018 to 2020.

PAF is no longer interested un Mirage2000 (Mirage2000-9P version).

Gripens were never denied, the weapon system was the problem which put the interest to rest for the time being. Gripens uses some of the US weapons & at that moment US was not willing to supply those weapons. Since US is now willing to sell those weapons because of F-16s the weapon system for Gripens also do not seem much of a problem any more. The Gripens may go back into discussion when India decideds its MRCA package & once Pakistan finalizes its AWACs deal with the Swedes.

What has India MRCA Deal to do with Gripen or AWAC for pakistan??