Gripen demonstrator rolled out

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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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You are assuming that other security partners will be better in future. In next 10 years time will come that likely Norway adversary will have more integrated economy with US/WesternEU.
More off topic nonsense. The EU is more significant to Norway than a scandinavian economic block - do the sums


After all where GM can sell so many gas guzzling SUVs.
More off topic - and you just can't help yourself can you. This is your last warning as I know you have multiple warnings from at least 4 of the Mods. You obviously have selective hearing.

It is called Share corporate interests that ultimately determine the policy.
it happened to China/India/Vietnam case. (Taiwan/Pakistan/Thailand former allies were downgraded).
see above

JSF will become irrelevant. Norway will be better off with Sweden. Atleast share threat.
More personal opinion based on your own bias against americans and anything involving americans. JSF is that irrelevant that its build rate is in fgures - Gripen will have nowhere near the economies of scale - and the platform support redundancy that it provides. Considering that the Swedes are getting closer to NATO and are now getting more access into US sponsored programs - there is a pretty clear view that they see the Russians as more of a problem - and having a scandinavian brotherhood just aint going to provide the same support matrix if heaven forbid, things did get ugly. Sweden is getting closer to NATO - and Swedish companies are demonstrating in real world situations that they want to be NATO compliant etc... Norway - is committed to NATO - and I'd argue that its more than a commitment to Sweden - not just in symbolic fighter purchase examples

Take note of the prev - your last warning just got issued to stay on topic.
 
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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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Verified Defense Pro
What bribery are you talking about? We should not get into accusations if we can't prove it. Regarding the issue "Saab loosing" and national pride -
Sigh, and yet the professionals associated with the tests including the warfighters all want the JSF. Who cares what the general public want if they don't have any technical input into it and aren't the ones who have to fly the things.

The Swedish bribery claim is wrt to India - it's been a huge issue for over years as Bofors was banned from selling anything into India, officials were sacked and the entire tender program was subsequently shut down - its only recently been re-opened after years of closure. It's not my opinion - its the Indian Govts internal investigators. Perhaps you should argue with their own investigation people? As an issue of fraud it was common knowledge. We even referred to the case to ensure that our own programs with swedish companies were not at risk. BTW, you are aware of the reason why Sweden allowed some of its own companies to be bought out by US majority stakeholders on US military contracts? It was part of the post Bofors review process.

as far as I understand, Vivendi is norvegian and most norvegian newspapers that I've read on Internet share his opinion about the norvegian fighter aircraft selection. I only have positive feelings for my norvegian neighbours so, despite the fake selection process - a big merry christmas to Norway from Sweden! :xmas
I am happy that you have positive feelings for Norway - but what relevance has that got with a technical assessment done by systems experts and current qualified fighter pilots on what they want to go to war in? Zip. Nada, Zilch, Zero, Nothing .

I can show you media results where the general public in some countries would rather not have an air force at all and would rather see the monies used for tax breaks, schools, hospitals etc etc.... Or I can show you political parties who will argue the same principles - the Greens in Aust for example/ It's irrelevant as national interests are beyond the pervue sometimes of what the voting public think is in their interests as they don't have the expertise to make some of those calls. Its why elected Governments get professionals to do those things on their behalf.

I'm not interested in getting the opinion of the general public on what warfighting platform they think the military get - I want to get the best solution that the military recommend based on their own needs. When the general public get to be warfighters and have to go to war and get shot at on day 1 - then maybe their voice will be weighted accordingly. If I approved a platform based on what the public said, or what the vendor told me was gospel about their products capability - then the construct of the force structure would be a dogs breakfast. It's why we employ professionals at a contracts level, at the technical level, at the user level, to make professional decisions where they aren't tainted by misplaced "feelgood" or emotional commentary.

At a private company level they can make a commercial decision and buy what they want and suffer or benfit through the vagaries of the commercial outcome - military procurement is a bit more demanding.
 
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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Scandinavian military cooperation is always going to be hampered by the fact that Sweden is a non NATO country. In the event of Norway ever becoming a combatant in a future conflict, Sweden would not supply weapons material at the risk of damaging its position of neutrality. As friendly as relations are between Norway and Sweden I don't think the Norwegians have any illusions about who their security partners are.
and as has been pointed out, Sweden is getting closer and closer to NATO. Sweden has now been allowed into some of the restricted communications technologies that were NATO and preferred partner exclusive. I deal with a Swedish company right now that is partnered up into some future systems development. They were invited in by the americans after discussions with the other first tranche partners.

The Swedes are now taking a long view - they realise that they run the same risk as the French do with Rafale in the long term - ie the negatives of having a suitable local platform in a restricted competitive market where they run the real risk of having a commercial success orphan because the economies of scale are not viable. The parallels are very very similar, letting national pride or platform bias intervene in the assessment of this is just silly, it ignores the fundamentals and more importantly ignores the subtle sea change that the Swedish Govt recognises.
 
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