General Aviation Thread

[John Fedup]

All moot now that the US NTSB has been invited in along with others. The news about the missile strike also seems to be a game changer.


Boeing and US safety board invited to join probe of Ukraine-bound plane crash, Iran officials say

 

[John Fedup]

An article as to why the plane may have been shot down. I wonder why Iran didn’t ground all commercial air traffic after the BM launches as US retaliation was possible? Why did this Ukrainian airline even continue flight operations? Perhaps command and control of RG units isn’t so great.

 

[ngatimozart]

An article as to why the plane may have been shot down. I wonder why Iran didn’t ground all commercial air traffic after the BM launches as US retaliation was possible? Why did this Ukrainian airline even continue flight operations? Perhaps command and control of RG units isn’t so great.

This article discusses possibilities of why the aircraft may have been shot down Experts detail factors that may have led Iranian missile crews to down Ukrainian 737

This one discusses Boeing fighting Lion Air over Lion Airs proposal requiring pilots to undergo sim training on the MAX. Boeing Fought Lion Air On Proposed MAX Simulator Training Requirement | Aviation Week Network. Not a good look for Boeing.

 

[John Fedup]

Bloodly hell, the more I here about the MAX the more I think it might be necessary to fly Air Canada 787s on the Toronto- Vancouver route as opposed to the Toronto-Calgary-Abbotsford route on WestJet 737s. A real bugger as Abbotsford airport is so much more convenient for people in the Fraser Valley.

 

[John Fedup]

More evidence on how much the MAX grounding is hurting Boeing. It certainly limits Boeing’s ability to consider new clean sheet designs. The KC-46 program doesn’t need any further delays either.



Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[ngatimozart]

Doesn't get any better for Boeing with Boeing mocking Lion Air wanting simulator training on the MAX. Boeing Mocked Lion Air "Idiots" For Requesting Extra Training For 737 MAX. Now it is alleged that so far the MAX fubar has cost Boeing US$21 Billion, meaning that it could've bought Bombardiers complete aviation division. Boeing 737 MAX Crisis Costs US$21B - Boeing Could Have Bought The Whole Bombardier CSeries and Its Aerospace Division!. Go figure. Arrogance?

And now for something completely different.

Boeing is looking at a new concept in an airliner about the size of the B737. It looks quite interesting and different.

Boeing Plans Next Steps For Ultra-Efficient Airliner Concept | Aviation Week Network

 

[Calculus]

Drop the "MAX" brand: Boeing customer Air Lease says 'damaged' MAX brand should be dropped

Just a matter of time before this happened. That brand is forever tainted.

 

[Ananda]

Boeing is looking at a new concept in an airliner about the size of the B737. It looks quite interesting and different.

Boeing Plans Next Steps For Ultra-Efficient Airliner Concept | Aviation Week Network

By the end of decade the article says. Seems Boeing know begin to realize the MAX is not going to be able to compete with A320 family anymore. This concept perhaps is the beginning phase of Boeing to let go MAX. If they can come out with MAX replacement for the end of decade, most of customers that still maintain NG perhaps will keep them in line and wait for MAX replacement..rather than take on MAX order..unless the ones that already paid for MAX.

 

[Ananda]

Boeing's new CEO orders rethink on key jetliner project | Article [AMP] | Reuters

Boeing New CEO says that Boeing will go back to new clean sheet design to improve their reputation. First they will go back to revive NMA and then new design to replace MAX. Even tough on the other part of article he said Boeing still confidence with MAX future, but the part on what they are planning on new clean sheets design for both NMA and Max replacement within this decade clearly in my opinion stated that Boeing already see MAX windows is closing in.

 

[John Fedup]

It’s not only the MAX window that is closing but the NMA as well. The A321XLR is already on its way to consume most of the potential sales. There was a link here earlier about a truss braced wing concept that might be a potential MAX replacement but developing this and a NMA while also sorting out the KC-46, the MAX and the 777X...a bridge too far perhaps?

 

[Ananda]

It’s not only the MAX window that is closing but the NMA as well. The A321XLR is already on its way to consume most of the potential sales.

From the article, I do sense that Boeing also agree that window for NMA is also closing in. With they try to speed up development of NMA with new design technology, showing in my opinion they need to get NMA to market fast.

Well hopefully they are not botching up this new clean design with rushing too soon. I do think FAA already learn their lesson on trusting Boeing.
Still I'm not really sure that A321LR/XLR already taking most of potential market. Some 757 users already begin buying A321, however some still maintain their 757 fleet to see what Boeing can come out.

Once in this thread I stated some opinion on Aviation analysts that NMA market mostly in North America and Europe (especially Western one), while Asia Pacific will need mostly A320/737 class for regional market.
Still if we see big player like Singapore Airlines, Cathay, ANA,EVA or Qantas which using 787/A330 for regional market, then perhaps some market do exist for NMA also in Asia Pacific.

Perhaps like smaller/leaner market like between South Asia to Southeast Asia which now usually serve by A320/737 class. Still the biggest need for NMA coming from North America and Western Europe that need replacement for 757 fast.

Hope Boeing can improve their manufacturing process and quality if they want to regain market trust soon.

 

[John Fedup]

It is the urgent need that is somewhat unsettling. Rushing a new design to market is what got Boeing into its present mess. The regulatory people have learned their lessons from MAX so new approvals will and should be more rigorous and hence longer. If Boeing's new CEO is serious about getting things right, these new clean sheet designs are still going to take more time despite new technology that is now available to design them. Also, potential customers are going to be very cautious when evaluating new jets from Boeing and Airbus albeit even more so from other vendors.

 

[Ananda]

Could Boeing Launch The NMA & FSA Together? - Simple Flying

Interesting thinking on this article. What if Boeing build NMA to replace 757 and 737 MAX. Just got me wondering a bit. Airbus with A220-100/300 basically already doomed A318/319. A220 variants can take similar passengers load to A318/319, with more Economics airframe thus provide more efficient per mile costs. Thus Airbus now only focus with A320/321Neo and A220.

With Boeing-Embrear team up on E2, the E2 variants of E175-E195 can take from 80-150 thus basically no need for MAX 7, and it leaves MAX 8/9/10 which range from 170-230 pax. Thus if they can made variants of NMA ranging from 170-270 pax..they will have new clean sheet design that can take A320/321 Neo with spare capacities.
Leave the short range regionals to E2, and slowly let 737 phased away (both NG and MAX), and they can get back to business of competing with Airbus Effectively. At best Boeing if begin now can bring NMA to Market by 2030.

They should forgot to get all NG users switching to MAX..MAX is already got too much reputation damage, and seems some of current NG users will think hard on selling MAX to their customers.
If they can bring NMA with 170-270 pax range load..then perhaps those reluctant to switch to MAX (NG users) willing to stretch their NG operation to wait for NMA.

Perhaps this is what Boeing new CEO means that market conditions are changing, thus Boeing need to rethink NMA design.

 

[John Fedup]

The idea of NMA (797) addressing both Boeing markets (737/NG/MAX and 757) is pretty optimistic but possible I guess. Certainly it would be in the interest of major airlines to see a viable alternative to the new versions of the A320/321 especially the XLR. IMO, it might be necessary to consider a blended wing body design to regain market dominance. Could be a a bit of a hurdle from a sales perspective but the design has attractive merits.

 

[Ananda]

The idea of NMA (797) addressing both Boeing markets (737/NG/MAX and 757) is pretty optimistic but possible I guess

Officially Boeing talking about NMA and FSA as two separate projects. However the statement of new Boeing CEO on the article I posted before, about rethinking NMA from a clean sheets design, makes me wondering if combine NMA and FSA might be something that Boeing should do.

Boeing already got huge hit by MAX, I read an article talking about costs already USD 21 bio due to MAX and the end still not clear. Perhaps they can't afford both two separate projects of NMA and FSA and one project combination of both is the answer.
I just think, like Airbus used C Series as A220 for smaller capacity market, Boeing should also optimised E2 on that segment and thus fill at least half of the need for FSA.

Boeing's 777X, largest-ever twin-engine jet, completes maiden flight

One good think at least in my opinion they are now already in flight test phase off 777X..which at least positive progress compared on continues negative image news on MAX, KC-46 and their space projects. However this 170-270 pax segment is the main market on Airlines Industry..thus this combine NMA-FSA perhaps if they can design it properly will be the answer that they need for competitive edge in future.

MAX too damages in image and reputation, to be able to challenge A320/321 neo now, let alone the LR/XLR of A321. If FAA and other regulators already let MAX back into air by mid or end of this year, they should just let the MAX production line open for 5-7 years and killed it when NMA ready. Hopefully whatever design that come out can combine both NMA and upper half of FSA need, since in my opinion after this MAX episode, they simply can't afford to have both separate projects (to be able to catch up quickly) against Airbus.

Besides, I think most Airlines will think it more positive for one model able to cater 170-270 pax segment in efficient and effective costs.

 

[John Fedup]

Finally, some goods for Boeing. The 777x has made its first test flight.

First Flight: Boeing’s 777x Finally Takes To The Skies On Its Maiden Flight

 

[Ananda]

Boeing, Embraer partnership cleared by Brasilia

Boeing got clearence from Brazil Regulators for their merger project with Embrear. With Embrear commercial (E2) got Boeing Majority and Embrear military (C290) still got Embrear majority.

Just don't understand why they really need to get European agreement. I know this is for Euro Market clearance, but just found the Euro regulators concern of this merger as make condition for 100-150 pax segment is really absurd. I mean, Airbus doing same thing with C series, now they concern on Boeing move ?

Are those European wants to have trade war with US ? I'm not pro US or Euro, but I'm for fair trade. The Euro regulators have no problem for Airbus acquisition of C Series, now they have problem with Boeing taking E series ? Perhaps they really wants another trade war with US.

 

[John Fedup]

The Airbus-Boeing trade dispute is a lawyer’s dream come true. The only very small concession I would make to Airbus is the huge investment that numerous US agencies make towards aerospace that will flow to domestic industries first. The EU isn’t even close and that’s including the UK.

 

[ngatimozart]

Well it's official, Boeing has gone back to the drawing board for the NMA. Boeing Heads Back to Drawing Board on NMA | Aviation Week Network. It will be interesting to see what they come up with and how quickly. Apparently they have 4,000 back orders for the 737MAX and they intend fullfilling those.

 

[John Fedup]

If Airbus had extra manufacturing for their A320neo, I think cancellations would quickly diminish that 4,000 backorder number.