General Aviation Thread

[Ananda]

Airbus picked by Qantas over Boeing to carry out the world's longest flights - CNN

Airbus beat Boeing again. The Qantas project sunrise is a niche market, since only very few Airlines will need this kind of range. However in term of prestige it is quite significant since Airbus can now boasted that A350 are more efficient than 777X.

If I was in Qantas executive position, it's actually in my opinion has shown from sometime A350 is in better possition. Singapore Airlines already used A350 for Singapore New York route as currently the longest Non Stop route. Boeing 777X version that being prepared at this moment is 777-9 which did not optimised for more than 16-17 hrs flight. This supposed to be handle by 777-8 which Boeing has not begin to prepare yet due to delay in 777-9.

Again, with so many bad decisions that Boeing Management done in this last couple of years, I still don't understand why their shareholders still keeping this Management team.

 

[John Fedup]

Boeing QA is proving to be Airbus’s best marketing team member. Time to move HQ out of Chicago and back to Everett. Some serious support for the Georgia plant is in order also.

 

[At lakes]

BBC News.com is reporting that Boeing will temporarily halt production of its troubled 737 Max airliner in January, the manufacturer said. ( I cant get the dammed link to work) It has 400 aircraft parked in storage. 300 workers will be reassigned to other 737 work or moved to different teams. I think the time has come for Boeing to move on from this aircraft and acknowledge that they have twisted and pulled this one as much as they can and they stuffed it up. Then they need to start design work on a new small airliner, if they already haven't started.

Edit: The article also states that the production halt is a temporary measure.

@At lakes You are required to provide links to articles. This is to protect both the forum and you from allegations of plagiarism. Fortunately @Jezza was kind enough to post them below for you, but that doesn't excuse you.

Ngatimozart

 

[Jezza]

BBC News.com is reporting that Boeing will temporarily halt production of its troubled 737 Max airliner in January, the manufacturer said. ( I cant get the dammed link to work) It has 400 aircraft parked in storage. 300 workers will be reassigned to other 737 work or moved to different teams. I think the time has come for Boeing to move on from this aircraft and acknowledge that they have twisted and pulled this one as much as they can and they stuffed it up. Then they need to start design work on a new small airliner, if they already haven't started.

Edit: The article also states that the production halt is a temporary measure.

There you go mate.

Boeing to halt 737 Max production in January
Boeing to halt 737 Max production in January

 

[John Fedup]

The airlines awaiting Maxes are between a rock and a hard place. The uncertainties about this jet along with passenger loss of confidence combined with a long delivery wait should they switch orders to Airbus must provide their competitors with a massive wave of optimism.

 

[ASSAIL]

The airlines awaiting Maxes are between a rock and a hard place. The uncertainties about this jet along with passenger loss of confidence combined with a long delivery wait should they switch orders to Airbus must provide their competitors with a massive wave of optimism.

Most passenger wouldn’t know what aircraft they were flying in. Obviously there are those who are informed but when the Max does return to service I’d suggest it would be the most heavily scrutinised (by regulators) aircraft in service and that alone would give comfort to those who care.

 

[At lakes]

There you go mate.

Boeing to halt 737 Max production in January
Boeing to halt 737 Max production in January

I thank you for your help by providing that link. It was my computer at fault, it was brought 2nd hand at a used arms bazar in Singapore in the 60's

 

[Ananda]

Most passenger wouldn’t know what aircraft they were flying in. Obviously there are those who are informed but when the Max does return to service I’d suggest it would be the most heavily scrutinised (by regulators) aircraft in service and that alone would give comfort to those who care.

Below is few months old article on Garuda's plan on replacing 49 MAX8 they have in order.
Garuda to switch 737 Max orders to other Boeing planes

How it's going to be, still in question moreover due to SOE Ministry just replace Garuda's Board (twice already in last four years). However if not change, then they will replace those 49 MAX 8 with combination of 787 and MAX 10.

I put in this just to shown that most Airlines that already in MAX order line, they simply do not have choices. Change to A320/321 or A220 is just too long in lines now. For Chinese and Russian Airliners they might be also waiting for C919 and MC-21, but for most Airliners to change their ecosystem support from Boeing and Airbus are simply too much gambling. Once I thought they can change the alternative to C919 and MC-21, However after talk with some people in Industry and some colleagues that handle Aircrafts Financing, then I realized for non Chinese and Russian Airlines, it can cost them significant premium on maintenance to go outside Airbus and Boeing ecosystem at this moment.

However, I do still see that Boeing need to step up the development cycle of MAX replacement (so called FSA), as my previous post saying. Some Airlines already talk in private or publicly that they will 'rethink' their future MAX order batches. Boeing already loosing momentum with NMA, I believe they should be focus more on FSA to save their single aisle products.

 

[Volkodav]

Is it just me or are Boeing's woes eerily similar to those that Douglas had after the McDonnell take over? It is said McDonnell bought Boeing with Boeings own money.

 

[John Fedup]

Most passenger wouldn’t know what aircraft they were flying in. Obviously there are those who are informed but when the Max does return to service I’d suggest it would be the most heavily scrutinised (by regulators) aircraft in service and that alone would give comfort to those who care.

I think many are aware enough to avoid this jet. Unfortunately many markets e.g. Canada, are mostly served by 737 MAXs for the 1000-2500 km routes. As for regulators, many have to accept FAA evaluations, not exactly reassuring.

 

[John Fedup]

Below is few months old article on Garuda's plan on replacing 49 MAX8 they have in order.
Garuda to switch 737 Max orders to other Boeing planes

How it's going to be, still in question moreover due to SOE Ministry just replace Garuda's Board (twice already in last four years). However if not change, then they will replace those 49 MAX 8 with combination of 787 and MAX 10.

I put in this just to shown that most Airlines that already in MAX order line, they simply do not have choices. Change to A320/321 or A220 is just too long in lines now. For Chinese and Russian Airliners they might be also waiting for C919 and MC-21, but for most Airliners to change their ecosystem support from Boeing and Airbus are simply too much gambling. Once I thought they can change the alternative to C919 and MC-21, However after talk with some people in Industry and some colleagues that handle Aircrafts Financing, then I realized for non Chinese and Russian Airlines, it can cost them significant premium on maintenance to go outside Airbus and Boeing ecosystem at this moment.

However, I do still see that Boeing need to step up the development cycle of MAX replacement (so called FSA), as my previous post saying. Some Airlines already talk in private or publicly that they will 'rethink' their future MAX order batches. Boeing already loosing momentum with NMA, I believe they should be focus more on FSA to save their single aisle products.

The financial drain of the MAX, the KC-46, and the 787 program ( not sure if profits are coming in from the Dreamliner yet) would seem to leave little revenue for a FSA, especially as Boeing needs the 777x to get off the ground. Nevertheless they do need a FSA ASAP.

 

[Ananda]

Boeing’s misplaced strategy on the 737 MAX

Nice article from the economists on Boeing. Basically they say Boeing taking advantage on duopoly condition too much that they see the Airlines will have no choice to stick with them. They also think FAA will give them much leeway even after MAX situations, and turn out FAA now getting tough on them, to improve their own image.

Economist usually quite in line with market mood..thus the investors now see Boeing CEO must go, their management board need to revamp, they need to go back to producing reliable Airliners, thus need to increase R&D..and they should move on from MAX.

Something that we in this forum basically says the same.

 

[Ananda]

Boeing Fires C.E.O. Dennis Muilenburg

Finally, it's about time. This after failure to failure. Hope's it's not too far down the line, they have to revamp Boeing culture and strategy.

 

[ASSAIL]

Boeing Fires C.E.O. Dennis Muilenburg

Finally, it's about time. This after failure to failure. Hope's it's not too far down the line, they have to revamp Boeing culture and strategy.

The weird thing is though that their share price is doing very well on the NYSE. I guess it’ll take time for all the fall out from Max to filter through although the commentators say it’s already effected the stock?

 

[Ananda]

The weird thing is though that their share price is doing very well on the NYSE. I guess it’ll take time for all the fall out from Max to filter through although the commentators say it’s already effected the stock?

Well that's funny thing in stock market.. sometimes market expectations and perceptions can affect more than Financial figures. Boeing market share has been dropped, and now stabilize due to the duopoly condition in the Industry.

This sacking of current CEO also a move I believe by shareholders to save the perception. They clearly hope market will react positive to keep the momentum. Still if they don't get new management with better strategy that can improve company's culture, well there's limit to market perception.

 

[Todjaeger]

It's not right. In fact, it's an abomination in the eyes of men and the gods. A flying machine that doesn't sing the sweet harmonies of the round engine, inline engine or gas turbine engine.

Imagine how exciting a dead battery would be...

 

[ngatimozart]

Imagine how exciting a dead battery would be...

The sphincter muscle would be well clenched I would think.

 

[Volkodav]

The weird thing is though that their share price is doing very well on the NYSE. I guess it’ll take time for all the fall out from Max to filter through although the commentators say it’s already effected the stock?

That's the trouble with the McDonnell culture that has infected Boeing since the merger, its very good at building share price and maximising profit, unfortunately this has been to the detriment of engineering and safety.

McDonnell did it to Douglas and now they have done it to Boeing, maximised share price and profit but damaged the brand through killing people. It the DC/MDC-10 all over again, good design made dangerous by cost / marketing driven changes, a failure to recognise or acknowledge a problem, a failure to fix the problem, concentrating instead on lobbying and marketing to minimise the fallout and if possible misdirect blame.

 

[John Fedup]

The Globe&Mail reports a discussion between Iran and Canada regarding the Ukrainian 737 crash. I doubt Canada will be allowed access to much info. Italy or France should be given access to the black boxes. An Iranian refusal to do this merely adds credence to a mistaken missile strike by Iranian air defences.

Canada, Iran hold rare call as plane crash investigators release initial findings

 

[ngatimozart]

The Globe&Mail reports a discussion between Iran and Canada regarding the Ukrainian 737 crash. I doubt Canada will be allowed access to much info. Italy or France should be given access to the black boxes. An Iranian refusal to do this merely adds credence to a mistaken missile strike by Iranian air defences.

Canada, Iran hold rare call as plane crash investigators release initial findings

It possibly could be the French BEA (Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la sécurité de l'aviation civile) aircrash investigation bureau with whom the Iranians have worked with before. They have a good record and should be acceptable to all parties.