General ADF Knowledge

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Aussie Digger

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Simon9 said:
In your list of Australian units with armoured (and I use the word loosely!) vehicles... you forgot 6RAR equipped with Bushmasters, AD. Tsk tsk!

Yes, it's true. I have nothing better to do than troll about here until TFC forums are back up. :(
True, though they've had most of them taken off them IIRC. IN a couple of years the remainders will be too, from what I hear...
 

Simon9

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Aussie Digger said:
True, though they've had most of them taken off them IIRC. IN a couple of years the remainders will be too, from what I hear...
They still have a heap of Bushies at the moment. But they don't have a full complement yet and from what you're saying, they might not get it.

So what are they going to be re-roled as? After all the trouble they've gone to modernising 7 Bde to be fit for motorised ops it seems stupid (but not entirely out of character) to stop half-way through.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Simon9 said:
They still have a heap of Bushies at the moment. But they don't have a full complement yet and from what you're saying, they might not get it.

So what are they going to be re-roled as? After all the trouble they've gone to modernising 7 Bde to be fit for motorised ops it seems stupid (but not entirely out of character) to stop half-way through.
Yes ironically under the "modified" hardening and networking Army plan 6RAR is to revert to a completely LIGHT infantry based formation and 8/9 will be as well. Kind of makes me wonder why 2/14LHR got LAV's. Might as well transfer them to "Three Quarter" Cav, make it a proper Cav Regiment and kit 2/14LHR out with RSV landrovers like every other chocco "armoured" corps unit...

Hence my (somewhat bitter) comments that maybe the plan should be changed to "hardening and networking 1 Brigade". The rest of army as usual is getting shafted...

Out of interest, have any plans been released about what will happen to 9RQR and 25/49RQR when 8/9RAR reforms? Gallipoli Barracks will be a mite tight if, as I presume, it will be based at Enoggera? (though there have been mentions of it being based at RAAF Amberley for what reason, probably only god knows)...

7 Brigade will then feature (I think) 4 infantry battalions, 3 artillery batteries , 2/14LHR and support units. A rather weird brigade structure if you ask me...
 

Simon9

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Aussie Digger said:
Yes ironically under the "modified" hardening and networking Army plan 6RAR is to revert to a completely LIGHT infantry based formation and 8/9 will be as well. Kind of makes me wonder why 2/14LHR got LAV's. Might as well transfer them to "Three Quarter" Cav, make it a proper Cav Regiment and kit 2/14LHR out with RSV landrovers like every other chocco "armoured" corps unit...

Hence my (somewhat bitter) comments that maybe the plan should be changed to "hardening and networking 1 Brigade". The rest of army as usual is getting shafted...

Out of interest, have any plans been released about what will happen to 9RQR and 25/49RQR when 8/9RAR reforms? Gallipoli Barracks will be a mite tight if, as I presume, it will be based at Enoggera? (though there have been mentions of it being based at RAAF Amberley for what reason, probably only god knows)...

7 Brigade will then feature (I think) 4 infantry battalions, 3 artillery batteries , 2/14LHR and support units. A rather weird brigade structure if you ask me...
Typical army. Too many plans in quick succession that don't completely replace the previous one, but render the remaining changes of it completely obsolete.

The whole idea was for 7 Bde to become motorised. That's what Enoggera has been gearing towards for the last three years or so. That's why 1 Fd got a 155 battery, that's why 6RAR and 25/49 were slated for Bushmasters, that's why 2/14 went ASLAV.

Now all the supporting units will remain in their motorised format, while the actual maneouvre elements will be on foot! What an absolutely stupid idea. This also means that there will be NO motorised infantry units - the very reason the Bushmaster was selected in the first place. And after 10-odd years of 6RAR trialling motorised inf tactics in the Perenties too.

Oh well. My one consolation is that these decisions are coming so thick and fast that there are likely to be multiple additional revisions before anything actually happens. I can only hope they move in the right direction next time.

BTW, do you have an online source for the new 'hardened' 7 Bde? I haven't seen anything yet.

Re 9RQR and 25/49... you're right, Enoggera will be pretty tight trying to support four infantry battalions. 9RQR is currently in 8/9's old buildings, but part of that (including the parade ground) has been taken over by 2/14's expanded presence. I doubt there will be room for a full ARA battalion to move into 9RQR's current space, though I'm sure forces within the ARA will push towards evicting the Chocko presence from Enoggera and there will be an attempt to move 9RQR off-base.

It would make more sense to replace 25/49 because they have a much larger area (because they used to be integrated) but then you have to find somewhere for 25/49. There is not much more space at Enoggera, nestled as it is between the main road and the mountains, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Simon9 said:
Typical army. Too many plans in quick succession that don't completely replace the previous one, but render the remaining changes of it completely obsolete.

The whole idea was for 7 Bde to become motorised. That's what Enoggera has been gearing towards for the last three years or so. That's why 1 Fd got a 155 battery, that's why 6RAR and 25/49 were slated for Bushmasters, that's why 2/14 went ASLAV.

Now all the supporting units will remain in their motorised format, while the actual maneouvre elements will be on foot! What an absolutely stupid idea. This also means that there will be NO motorised infantry units - the very reason the Bushmaster was selected in the first place. And after 10-odd years of 6RAR trialling motorised inf tactics in the Perenties too.

Oh well. My one consolation is that these decisions are coming so thick and fast that there are likely to be multiple additional revisions before anything actually happens. I can only hope they move in the right direction next time.

BTW, do you have an online source for the new 'hardened' 7 Bde? I haven't seen anything yet.

Re 9RQR and 25/49... you're right, Enoggera will be pretty tight trying to support four infantry battalions. 9RQR is currently in 8/9's old buildings, but part of that (including the parade ground) has been taken over by 2/14's expanded presence. I doubt there will be room for a full ARA battalion to move into 9RQR's current space, though I'm sure forces within the ARA will push towards evicting the Chocko presence from Enoggera and there will be an attempt to move 9RQR off-base.

It would make more sense to replace 25/49 because they have a much larger area (because they used to be integrated) but then you have to find somewhere for 25/49. There is not much more space at Enoggera, nestled as it is between the main road and the mountains, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
A thought I had would be for 9RQR (or 25/49 RQR) for that matter, to revert to a completely "regional" basis and have no elements at Enoggera. This could provide some space, as I recall 9RQR BHQ, A Coy and Support Coy were nestled into Gallipoli Barracks, up the back beside 2/14.

9 or 25/49 could then join the Queensland Reserve Brigade (8 Brigade I think?) leaving 7 Brigade witha more normal complement of 3 battalions, etc.

I agree it's a disgrace that 7 Brigade is now only "semi-motorised" at best. Given the cost of acquiring new Bushmasters to properly equip the brigade would be less than $300m I cannot understand why Government or Army is reluctant to spend the money. It boosts Army, provides jobs and investment into the Australian economy and with a larger domestic order, may encourage further foreign orders.

It'd be a win all round.

The current situation would have 2/14 zipping around providing a screening force for a brigade conducting 15k hops in the back of Mogs (due to OH&S issues) or "humping" the whole way...

A VERY balanced and useful force structure...
 

Wooki

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
gf0012-aust said:
Its a damn shame we can't talk about some of the sexy stuff thats under development - or not in the public domain (like submarine signature management technology, future soldier developments, ROV/USV developments etc....)
Feeling frustrated GF?

Then just BS, like this...

[BS]
I would dearly love to buy some putty from home depot and a spatula and stick one of my tiles on a Colins before it goes to RimPac... you know, just to mess up the paint work a bit.

Thing is, in working with said tiles, instead ot trying to encase the whole noise anamoly, why not just scatter then about at random? Kind of like USMC camo gear for a sub.

[/BS]

Nothing like a bit of disinformation to color your day.:D

cheers


W
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Wooki said:
Feeling frustrated GF?

Then just BS, like this...

[BS]
I would dearly love to buy some putty from home depot and a spatula and stick one of my tiles on a Colins before it goes to RimPac... you know, just to mess up the paint work a bit.

Thing is, in working with said tiles, instead ot trying to encase the whole noise anamoly, why not just scatter then about at random? Kind of like USMC camo gear for a sub.

[/BS]

Nothing like a bit of disinformation to color your day.:D

cheers


W
I could run a session on "signature scatter management" - "the benefits of random noise reflection and induced signature anomalies in underwater warfare" :nutkick
 

Wooki

Defense Professional
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gf0012-aust said:
I could run a session on "signature scatter management" - "the benefits of random noise reflection and induced signature anomalies in underwater warfare" :nutkick
right, but getting paid for it, that's the rub :p:

Anyway, re: ADF, when is the AICW supposed to come online? Is there a schedule, or is it still more to do with marketing genius from MTS that is keeping it going?

cheers

W
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Wooki said:
Anyway, re: ADF, when is the AICW supposed to come online? Is there a schedule, or is it still more to do with marketing genius from MTS that is keeping it going?

cheers

W
thats an interesting subject for debate. ;)

I handled the prototype in 2001, I then saw a revamped prototype at Land Warfare Conf in 2003. It basically had new furniture and was more profiled to look like a pregnant Austeyr.

what will be interesting is whether this stalls now that ADI have been taken over by Thales. The french were not allowed near MST - and the Govt has committed itself to ensuring that Thales is not allowed near some of our more sensitive projects that we are in co-operation with the US. That would seem to me to raise the issue of how involved Thales can be within this project.

effectively they could not be involved due to the french security concerns about leakage of MST.

In fact, if the prog wasn't stalling before - it must be positively choking by now.

It raises some peripheral issues as well, as some of the new sensor systems portable to the Future Soldier/Soldier 21 concepts are also under embargo from the french due to some concerns about tech espionage. That would mean that a few other projects are also in jeopardy due to Thales involvement.

I'm actually still at a loss to work out why Thales bothered to buy in when a number of the really progressive technologies will be locked away from them. Seems awfully dumb to me. I'm assuming that they think it will change.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Which of the three services would afford someone the greatest opportunities to see different parts of Australia? Also, which branch of each othe services?

It's something that has been puzzling me.

-Cheers
 

abramsteve

New Member
Well my recruiting officer told me this:

You join the army to be part of somthing, you join the Navy to travel and see the world and you join the airforce to see different pubs at home and abroad.

I think he was biased cause he's army.

I'd say that the Navy would offer the most oppertunities for travel abroad, but at home Im not sure. If not the Navy then probably the RAAF... ???? But its a good question!
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Well my recruiting officer told me this:

You join the army to be part of somthing, you join the Navy to travel and see the world and you join the airforce to see different pubs at home and abroad.

I think he was biased cause he's army.

I'd say that the Navy would offer the most oppertunities for travel abroad, but at home Im not sure. If not the Navy then probably the RAAF... ???? But its a good question!
Hmm... I'll have to do a bit of research and thinking then. Not to mention exercise.:shudder
 

Simon9

Defense Professional
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It's probably about equal between the three services in terms of postings. If you want to see more of northern Australia, the Army is the way to go. Likewise if you want to get out and see the Australian bush. ;)

In terms of overseas visits, I definitely agree the Navy is the way to go, but the Army is actually catching up due to the insane number of deployments they're going on in these days.

The RAAF, well, that's what you join if you don't actually want to go anywhere. :p:
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Well my recruiting officer told me this:

You join the army to be part of somthing, you join the Navy to travel and see the world and you join the airforce to see different pubs at home and abroad.

I think he was biased cause he's army.

I'd say that the Navy would offer the most oppertunities for travel abroad, but at home Im not sure. If not the Navy then probably the RAAF... ???? But its a good question!
well my recruiting officer signed me up general entry....i never made general....feel ripped off!:confused:
 

ugunnadiepiggy

Defense Professional
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Trick question. ;) There are no high quality ADF boots. The army stopped issuing the old GP boots at the end of 2000. In 2001 the first of the new generation boots, called Redback Terras, were just being issued, and they have caused no end of problems because they are, to be frank, complete and utter crap.

All Australian infantry are expected to cover long distances on foot, because we have traditionally been a light infantry force. That's what it makes it all the more criminal that the contract was awarded for these defective boots.

The introduction of the new boots also coincided with an order from the Chief of the Defence Force personally that no non-issue boots would be worn (or non-issue webbing, packs, or anything else). This basically condemned infantry throughout the army to a wide variety of foot problems because they've been forced to use these boots.

The top brass have steadfastly denied there is anything wrong with either the boots or the army equipment complaint system.

There was, for a brief period, an excellent boot issued to a few army personnel called the Taipan. I have a pair issued by the army, they are the best boots I have ever had. But I'm not allowed to wear them any more because they are not Terras. The army's logic is that the Taipans are too expensive, even though they last as long as three pairs of Terras and so are probably cheaper in the long run - not to mention that they won't cripple a soldier for life like the Terras can.
the taipan was standard issue to commando and i think was made by john bull
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
the taipan was standard issue to commando and i think was made by john bull
It was standard issue to Army in general for a short while, before that DMO designed heap of cr*p was issued and orders were sent out that the Taipan was NOT to be worn...

Just out of interest, a rumour is going around that a 4RAR fellow now has the world's longest ranged confirmed kill, beating out the previous record of 2431m's achieved by a Canadian sniper...

The 4RAR fellow is said to have used the AMR-50 to do it...
 

ugunnadiepiggy

Defense Professional
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It was standard issue to Army in general for a short while, before that DMO designed heap of cr*p was issued and orders were sent out that the Taipan was NOT to be worn...

Just out of interest, a rumour is going around that a 4RAR fellow now has the world's longest ranged confirmed kill, beating out the previous record of 2431m's achieved by a Canadian sniper...

The 4RAR fellow is said to have used the AMR-50 to do it...
i might be able to find out but only if it was a confirmed kill i will ask around but haven't heard of this before, usually we just get drunk and talk about why i haven't got back in? and you would be better off with a set of danner or high techs if you are gunna get some boots.
 
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A

Aussie Digger

Guest
i might be able to find out but only if it was a confirmed kill i will ask around but haven't heard of this before, usually we just get drunk and talk about why i haven't got back in? and you would be better off with a set of danner or high techs if you are gunna get some boots.
Danner's are heavy as f*ck. Not to mention how hot they are. I've got a pair I've had for about 2 years because I thought they were the sh*t and whilst they are "sturdy" and will last me years, I prefer my old Magnum "hi-tech's" for their light weight and "grippy" soles. You can run in the "old" style Magnum's, running in Danner "Arcadia's" is almost a futile exercise...

As to talking about getting back in and boot's. Why aren't you talking about the footy and line sl*ts???

Out of interest, how long ago did you leave ADF?
 

ugunnadiepiggy

Defense Professional
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Danner's are heavy as f*ck. Not to mention how hot they are. I've got a pair I've had for about 2 years because I thought they were the sh*t and whilst they are "sturdy" and will last me years, I prefer my old Magnum "hi-tech's" for their light weight and "grippy" soles. You can run in the "old" style Magnum's, running in Danner "Arcadia's" is almost a futile exercise...

As to talking about getting back in and boot's. Why aren't you talking about the footy and line sl*ts???

Out of interest, how long ago did you leave ADF?
build's up character, yes they are heavy and at times hot but that magnums can be just as hot prefered the heavy boot in bushy lowland area, the ol jungle boot in desert and the high techs in ampib work or like you say running.
i had both types of magnums the leather and the nylon side type although both were insulated like the danner except the danner were alot quicker at drying and i got used to the weight after doing alot of humps with mag58's.
I became inactive in 1997 and currently do not know of my status within the ADF but will find out when I go in for a brief before i go to Hong-Kong and Thailand for Xmas Break , Honestly when i was in some were ugly and there others were sisters who's Dad was a 3RAR Commander and they were still ugly after a dozen. Footy naw when we catch up all we seem to do is go to the casino, drink, strippers, drink, next day go to the footy. Like anyone we talk about lotsa stuff mate's talk about lately it seems bout getting back in for a fight mainly because a close friend is a corp commander.
Now look at a couple of my mate's they are Doctor's and lawyers, I am studying for Bach in Accounting and also Bach in International Relations.
If you do return to the ADF you will now have quick promotion in most areas and there are still some good benefits. also finally I am infantry I work for a living. Currently I am working as a boilermaker at night and Web design a couple of day's a week. Cheers Digger
 
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