F-35 Program - General Discussion

[John Fedup]

Given the cost to upgrade earlier additions of the F-35, and if the UK were to decide to go with an all "B" fleet, used F-35As may be appealing to some nations. I think political opposition on buying used F-35As for Canada from the UK would be immense given the Upholder purchase. Combine that with the eventual public awakening of what a complete waste of money the purchase of well used classic Hornets is, I'd say it's either new F-35As or new something else. Must admit the flexibility of the "B" is very appealing, especially now that price has descended from the the stratosphere.

 

[Boagrius]

Well I guess if RCAF F-35s get ordered, they might have adaptive engines given how rapid our procurement system is.

Haha. By the time the RCAF get their Lightnings I suspect they'll be fitted with warp drives and photon torpedoes...

 

[Todjaeger]

Haha. By the time the RCAF get their Lightnings I suspect they'll be fitted with warp drives and photon torpedoes...

Oh please, not going to happen. Now a hyperdrive, astromech droid and proton torpedoes OTOH...

 

[Boagrius]

Oh please, not going to happen. Now a hyperdrive, astromech droid and proton torpedoes OTOH...

Well it would beat the hell out of clapped out Aussie bugs! (Sorry Canuks - low hanging fruit...)

 

[John Fedup]

Actually the replacement program will see Warp drive obsoleted by the new drive technology seen in the new Star Trek “Discovery” series, the name which escapes me at the moment. Anyways back on topic, we can always beat up Canadian procurement on the RCAF or RCN threads.

 

[SpazSinbad]

Given the cost to upgrade earlier additions of the F-35, and if the UK were to decide to go with an all "B" fleet, used F-35As may be appealing to some nations. I think political opposition on buying used F-35As for Canada from the UK would be immense given the Upholder purchase. Combine that with the eventual public awakening of what a complete waste of money the purchase of well used classic Hornets is, I'd say it's either new F-35As or new something else. Must admit the flexibility of the "B" is very appealing, especially now that price has descended from the the stratosphere.

Nope. RAAF is Australia. RN/RAF for the moment AFAIK have still officially willing to buy all F-35Bs as originally intended although there is the usual CRAB JABBER about something different - just because they are CRABs (spoiling in the sun).

 

[ManteoRed]

Say it aint so, they've finally taken the covers off the F-35 at an airshow and let it show off a bit. Should be interesting to see if all the Couch Potato Air Marshalls change there tune steadily now that they can see that is actually capable of turning? If not, the high tech water vapor over the wings will surely impress them.

 

[ngatimozart]

Say it aint so, they've finally taken the covers off the F-35 at an airshow and let it show off a bit. Should be interesting to see if all the Couch Potato Air Marshalls change there tune steadily now that they can see that is actually capable of turning? If not, the high tech water vapor over the wings will surely impress them.

It's not the first time that the F-35 has performed at an airshow. It displayed at RIAT in 2016.

 

[ManteoRed]

Thats kind of my point, all the previous air shows have been sort of a leisurely Sunday Stroll sort of performance. This was the first I can recall where its given a bit more throttle. Not quite all out aerial acrobatics yet, but more so than in the past than I can remember.

 

[SpazSinbad]

Thats kind of my point, all the previous air shows have been sort of a leisurely Sunday Stroll sort of performance. This was the first I can recall where its given a bit more throttle. Not quite all out aerial acrobatics yet, but more so than in the past than I can remember.

So you did not see the PARIS Airshow last year? Billie Flynn and his team provided an incredible F-35 display in a difficult environment (constrained by time/airspace restrictions). That display would be difficult to beat with just an USAF line pilot (albeit trained to perform). Perhaps later when more F-35s available for air display work ups with experienced pilots then we may see a display of the caliber provided by Test Pilot Flynn. There are many online videos of the several performances, probably LM will give the best videos. There are even LENGTHY explanations about the maneuvers, probably over the heads for a lot of casual viewers but just the best from the likes of LM Chief Test Pilot whathisname. Norman - GOOGLE LM F-35 Chief Test Pilot for the videos....

His Explanation:

F-35 Paris Demo:

 

[ManteoRed]

Well there ya go, no I hadnt seen that one, every so often I go through and do a search for video's and apparently had missed that one. Usually the only ones I've found prior to this years demo was the normal VTOL demonstrations, and a few slow turns and steady fly by's.

On a side note, does it bother anybody else when they zoom in so tight on a cloudless day that you cant really determine whats happening because there's no point of reference in a clear blue sky.

Anyway, back on topic I suppose.

 

[SpazSinbad]

Yes, I agree with your point about 'pointless zooming too much'. There is one particular video of the RIAT 2018 F-35A performance that is just 'zoom on aircraft'. A good piece of video of 'following the aircraft well' but otherwise useless for determining what is going on. <sigh> Explanations for those who know (rather than some boozy comments after the show by nonames nocourtmartial supposed aviation writers) are really important if they can be obtained. Otherwise guessing what is happening is also 'a bit pointless' IMHO.

As the Block 3F F-35 configuration allows 9G for the F-35A we are likely to see more 'spectacular' airshows as the 'airshow pilots' refine their displays according to whatever other regulations are in force at any particular venue. Some of the 'snap horizontal HiG turns' are just eye-watering (to me anyway). I felt for Billie under G at Paris - he is one tough mother.

Billie Flynn on Twitter

"Raging pulling G out over Atlantic Ocean in CF-5. Love this jet... flies like a kite and turns like a snowboard in deep powder snow."

 

[SpazSinbad]

Pilot's eye view of F 35B Lightning from HMS Queen Elizabeth [STO de Ski Jump & SRVL from Pilot Viewpoint]

 

[Stampede]

Pilot's eye view of F 35B Lightning from HMS Queen Elizabeth [STO de Ski Jump & SRVL from Pilot Viewpoint]

Thanks for the post.
the graphics are most impressive.
Its not the Canberra, but will still enjoy watching the real thing as a F35B is soon to employ off QE's ramp for launch.
Being a long time coming for the RN but things are moving forward.

Happy sailing
Regards S

 

[SpazSinbad]

Looked everywhere for this graphic again PARIS EXPLAINED.... http://www.airforcemag.com/Features.../June 2017/F35 Aerial Demonstration PAS17.jpg

 

[Air Force Brat]

Say it aint so, they've finally taken the covers off the F-35 at an airshow and let it show off a bit. Should be interesting to see if all the Couch Potato Air Marshalls change there tune steadily now that they can see that is actually capable of turning? If not, the high tech water vapor over the wings will surely impress them.

This! is the most aggressive F-35A demonstration flight yet, RIAT 2018, a close of observation of that eye watering turn at 3:55 reveals what is doubtless the highest G loading that we have seen yet as the A model does a 150 degree left turn in less time than it takes to tell about it, reversing direction once again to the right and pitching to nearly vertical in full afterburner,, I can guarantee you that no matter who was flying, that would make your head spin.

This is the most energetic performance yet, and no doubt this A model has the former G limits lifted and is cleared to the full 9Gs, this bird is extremely docile to suffer such abuse,, I know you wouldn't get away with this in any other 4+ Gen besides the Su-35 or a similar Flanker with OVT.

 

[FORBIN]

This! is the most aggressive F-35A demonstration flight yet, RIAT 2018, a close of observation of that eye watering turn at 3:55 reveals what is doubtless the highest G loading that we have seen yet as the A model does a 150 degree left turn in less time than it takes to tell about it, reversing direction once again to the right and pitching to nearly vertical in full afterburner,, I can guarantee you that no matter who was flying, that would make your head spin.

This is the most energetic performance yet, and no doubt this A model has the former G limits lifted and is cleared to the full 9Gs, this bird is extremely docile to suffer such abuse,, I know you wouldn't get away with this in any other 4+ Gen besides the Su-35 or a similar Flanker with OVT.

F-35A Block 3F planned for 02/2019 is capable 9G less for B/C 7 and 7.5 G but yet some test birds have this capacity
And since severals years the doubters saying few agile but considering first blocks about 5 G

A new

 

[SpazSinbad]

How does one know the G being pulled? Usually the story goes that less than the maximum G is used during these demonstrations to allow for a safety margin to pull 6 G for example in an otherwise 5G maneuver to avoid catastrophe (if required) but otherwise not OVER G the demo aircraft unnecessarily. Pulling max. G at any time without a margin for error is a recipe for ….. just add your poison.

 

[south]

F-35A Block 3F planned for 02/2019 is capable 9G less for B/C 7 and 7.5 G but yet some test birds have this capacity
And since severals years the doubters saying few agile but considering first blocks about 5 G

A new
View attachment 46103

Wrong. The RAAF already has F-35 delivered with Block 3F software. It is in service and has been for months.

 

[south]

This! is the most aggressive F-35A demonstration flight yet, RIAT 2018, a close of observation of that eye watering turn at 3:55 reveals what is doubtless the highest G loading that we have seen yet as the A model does a 150 degree left turn in less time than it takes to tell about it, reversing direction once again to the right and pitching to nearly vertical in full afterburner,, I can guarantee you that no matter who was flying, that would make your head spin.

This is the most energetic performance yet, and no doubt this A model has the former G limits lifted and is cleared to the full 9Gs, this bird is extremely docile to suffer such abuse,, I know you wouldn't get away with this in any other 4+ Gen besides the Su-35 or a similar Flanker with OVT.

The turn you highlighted at 3:55 isn’t beyond the capability of most 4th gen, certainly other high AOA jets like F-18 series can do extremely similar.

Personally I reckon the pilot made a slight error - note the unloading of AOA at 3:57 and then another little pull to keep the nose coming around another 10-20 degrees. Normally in the displays the pilots (of all display aircraft) try to keep manoeuvres consistent and smoothly linked to avoid little bobbles; it makes it look better. Stuff like this is a big focus on their work ups (both in pitch and roll). But that’s just me being hyper critical. This jet is the Future of most western air arms, I reckon it will turn out alright.