European Union, member states and Agencies

downunderblue

Active Member
The media can rage all they like. Vance isn't interested in people's approval. It reminds me when former King Juan Carlos of Spain told Chavez to STFU at a diplomatic meeting.

If anything, I think part of the anger is the impotence of most of Europe. Europeans don't like to be reminded that their security is largely underwritten by the US. If it was a Chinese politician or someone from Africa saying this, people would have smirked. But the Americans lecturing Europe at a time they're threatening to pull out, that makes people defensive.

Europe really needs to put up or shut up when it comes to defence. Whining about how Vance, Trump and others are being mean makes the continent look powerless.
If former King Juan Carlos of Spain did meet JD Vance, I'm sure he would be very quiet given his country only spends 1.28% of its GDP on defence, the lowest in NATO.

Mind you, the leaders of Belgium, Canada, Italia, Netherlands and even France would be oddly preoccupied too.

Go Poland, as JD is know to pronounce.
 

SolarisKenzo

Well-Known Member
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If former King Juan Carlos of Spain did meet JD Vance, I'm sure he would be very quiet given his country only spends 1.28% of its GDP on defence, the lowest in NATO.

Mind you, the leaders of Belgium, Canada, Italia, Netherlands and even France would be oddly preoccupied too.

Go Poland, as JD is know to pronounce.
Poland didnt take it really well either.

 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
I assume Poland push comes to shove would prefer to be bolted onto the US than lumped with the insecurity of the EU.

It'd be easier managing Trump than getting certainty out of such a diversified and self distracted group as is the EU.
Neither option is very attractive. Managing Trump easier, hardly. Even his own team have a hard time doing that.
 

SolarisKenzo

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I can only hope, in these dark times, that young people have understood that the future of Europe lies neither in Washington nor in Moscow, but in Europe itself.
Current leaders are simply inedaquate, old jealous men still thinking in terms of "nations" and "cultures".
European fragmentation is its biggest weakness, and both USA and Russia are united in their objective of dividing Europe.

 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Professor Sachs talk with one of young Euro Parliament member in his podcast.


I know many who pro Ukraine doesn't like Professor Sachs. However I have meet him before during Asian Financial Crisis, and he's taking on realism. Sometimes hearing reality is not on everyone menu.

On this case he is telling Euro should think on Euro want and not what US want. For that Euro has to have their own defense, procure what best for Euro and NATO is outdated concept for Euro as it's make them relying too much with US.
 

SolarisKenzo

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Professor Sachs talk with one of young Euro Parliament member in his podcast.


I know many who pro Ukraine doesn't like Professor Sachs. However I have meet him before during Asian Financial Crisis, and he's taking on realism. Sometimes hearing reality is not on everyone menu.

On this case he is telling Euro should think on Euro want and not what US want. For that Euro has to have their own defense, procure what best for Euro and NATO is outdated concept for Euro as it's make them relying too much with US.
This "Fidias" guy is just not a credible source, I know him well.
I can't comment on him without breaching the rules, but if he is your source of info on Europe, I can only imagine how much nonsense you've been hearing.
Do yourself a favour and unsubscribe from this guy's channel.

He lives by promoting crypto scams, Musk's contents, populist propaganda and so on.
Doesnt even deserve a comment, really.

Last time I saw him at the european parliament a liberal mp tried to beat him...
I can't really talk much about Jeffrey Sachs, but this guy, for god's sake...
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
Sachs and Fidias are similar in many ways.
The only noticeable difference is that one is a useful idiot, and the other is a certified useful idiot.
The handlers may be different. Sachs says he's affiliated with the CPP, while Fidias seems to be under Russia. But the messages are so similar nowadays it hardly matters.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
can't comment on him without breaching the rules, but if he is your source of info on Europe, I can only imagine how much nonsense you've been hearing.
Do yourself a favour and unsubscribe from this guy's channel.
I don't now him, I only watch his podcast for Professor Sachs, and Sachs is definitely not idiot, he is realistic and off course many will not like his realistic assessment. However I believe he has valid point on Euro to take on their security and defense. Without that, this situation with Trump will repeat again in future.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Sachs and Fidias are similar in many ways.
The only noticeable difference is that one is a useful idiot, and the other is a certified useful idiot.
The handlers may be different. Sachs says he's affiliated with the CPP, while Fidias seems to be under Russia. But the messages are so similar nowadays it hardly matters.
Sachs has been rather pro-Russian & anti-Ukrainian for the last few years.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I assume Poland push comes to shove would prefer to be bolted onto the US than lumped with the insecurity of the EU.
Not really an option. Is Trump likely to help Poland, after abandoning Ukraine & pulling out of, or at least greatly reducing the US presence in, Europe? He doesn't see the USA as having any vital interests in Europe, as far as I can see.

Germany, Sweden, etc. most definitely do see themselves as having vital interests in Europe. After all, they're here. Do you think the Germans want Putin's army 90 km from Berlin?

The Poles aren't stupid. They know that in the last resort, Germany will defend itself, & that means defending Poland. I doubt they have the same confidence in Trump & his ilk. And there are German troops in Lithuania, with a new base being built for more.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Not really an option. Is Trump likely to help Poland, after abandoning Ukraine & pulling out of, or at least greatly reducing the US presence in, Europe? He doesn't see the USA as having any vital interests in Europe, as far as I can see.

Germany, Sweden, etc. most definitely do see themselves as having vital interests in Europe. After all, they're here. Do you think the Germans want Putin's army 90 km from Berlin?

The Poles aren't stupid. They know that in the last resort, Germany will defend itself, & that means defending Poland. I doubt they have the same confidence in Trump & his ilk. And there are German troops in Lithuania, with a new base being built for more.
Absolutely, Trump has ended any illusion that America will back NATO allies. He will likely throw Asian allies under the bus if it suits his financial interests. Trump will likely enhance nuclear proliferation as a result.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
European countries going to talk about autonomous nuclear deterrent
We'll see in a couple months whether there are such "talks" - and Merz has to be elected tomorrow first. I'm not seeing such talks for now, especially since this by German standards has to be initiated by France.
 

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
We'll see in a couple months whether there are such "talks" - and Merz has to be elected tomorrow first. I'm not seeing such talks for now, especially since this by German standards has to be initiated by France.
Looks like discussions have commenced.
Now, I wouldn't expect any action for some time. The lack of infrastructure to store/monitor/control French nuclear weapons do not exist in Germany. I would imagine sharing US nuclear sharing facilities would be out of the question.
And, occasionally parking nuclear armed French planes at German bases would likely be seen as a serious provocation
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Now, I wouldn't expect any action for some time. The lack of infrastructure to store/monitor/control French nuclear weapons do not exist in Germany. I would imagine sharing US nuclear sharing facilities would be out of the question.
Conceptually this has been floated in conservative European circles since late 2022.

See e.g. the below linked article (in English) from think tank SWP from January 2023 discussing French nuclear weapons as a possible scenario. The scenario goes a bit into technical difficulties of nuclear sharing, and addresses some political difficulties mostly stemming from possible US interference.


SWP is a German government -affiliated and -funded think tank that officially advises them with regard to political-strategic options. This think tank was originally founded by German foreign intelligence service BND, and two thirds of its controlling board come from government or federal parliament. In general SWP advice for the government are serious scenarios that lay out political options and their repercussions. In many cases they will at some point be realized to some extent when developments go in such directions.

Therefore, quoting from the article: "Third, France could station nuclear-capable fighter aircraft at allied bases."
 

SolarisKenzo

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SolarisKenzo

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Die Kaiserin proposes an 800 billion euros plan to rearm Europe, consisting also in 150 billion of EU funds for strategic autonomy investments.
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
German coalition talks for the prospective new government today agreed to exclude all defense expenditure above 1% GDP from the national debt ceiling. This requires a change of constitution, which the two parties (CDU and SPD) will pass before the inauguration of the new parliament, while they still have the necessary 2/3rds majority. Originally it was proposed to instead put up another special procurement fund, this time for 400-500 billion over a period of up to 10 years. The solution found now technically allows for even more.

von der Leyen probably calculated that into her proposal.
 

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
German coalition talks for the prospective new government today agreed to exclude all defense expenditure above 1% GDP from the national debt ceiling. This requires a change of constitution, which the two parties (CDU and SPD) will pass before the inauguration of the new parliament, while they still have the necessary 2/3rds majority. Originally it was proposed to instead put up another special procurement fund, this time for 400-500 billion over a period of up to 10 years. The solution found now technically allows for even more.
Let's hope the German Constitutional Court doesn't override this (as smaller parties have said they will bring a case if the lame-duck parliament tries to change the constitution). Even if it's an irregular procedure, it's clearly in the German national interest.
 
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