Eurofighter Typhoon Discussion Thread

[jaffo4011]

germany to order full 180 typhoons

Germany to order a total of 180 Eurofighter Typhoons
Written on June 13, 2008 – 2:33 pm | by FIDSNS |

Yesterday during an event celebrating the phasing-out of the F-4 F Phantom and the Eurofighter’s new role in Jagdgeschwader 74 German Air Force Three-Star-General Arne Kreuzinger-Janik has declared that “The Eurofighter is combat ready at Neuburg”.

The Commander of the German Air Force Command also responded to media questions at concerning Tranche 3. He confirmed the German Air Force would need the ordered total of 180 Eurofighter Typhoon, this number being confirmed time and time again by the German Parliament. With Eurofighter Typhoon now in full service, the German Air Force can meet international obligations towards NATO and the European Union.

In 1990’s the Germans wanted to withdraw from the Eurofighter project but the could not leave for legal reasons.

 

[AegisFC]

That's neat and all but their already is a Typhoon thread, I'll go ahead and move this post.

 

[Vivendi]

"BAE shoots for the moon to deliver the Typhoon"

(h)ttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/19/cmjbae119.xml

Geological surveys covering the final assembly unit at BAE's Warton factory near Preston, Lancashire, showed that the earth would be moving fractionally - just one or two millimetres - as the final parts for the twin engine jet packed with delicate electronic gadgetry were moved into place. It was all down to the moon. The gravitational pull of the moon meant that the tidal flow of the nearby River Ribble ever so gently disturbed the gravel under the Warton assembly hangar, potentially jeopardising the performance and efficiency of the Mach 2 jet because of the failure to align key components correctly.


The moon still plays with the tides around Warton and the earth continues to move, but BAE engineers and executives now breathe a regular sigh of relief and the RAF is said to be delighted with the behaviour of the Typhoon and its operational efficiency. It's all down to imagination, innovation and engineering ingenuity. BAE engineers came up with a brilliant solution to cope with the moon and ground movement and meet the demanding technical specifications of the final assembly phase. Two huge "floating'' concrete rafts on the hangar floor hold the key.

Interesting... is this a known problem for the assembly of other "less advanced" fighters, like the F-16, Rafale or Gripen?

Presumably, if they had built the factory on solid rock in the first place they would not have experienced this problem?


V.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Interesting...fighters, like the F-16, Rafale or Gripen?



V.

I don't know if you can really lump Rafale in that pile.

 

[stigmata]

The 1998 EJ230 AVEN TVC engine was never fitted to a Typhoon. It did a lot of bench test hours, but was never fitted to a fighter.

A canard delta wing fighter like Typhoon allready has outstanding high speed manouvering, i can't see any justification of improve on near perfection.

 

[contedicavour]

Germany to order a total of 180 Eurofighter Typhoons
Written on June 13, 2008 – 2:33 pm | by FIDSNS |

Yesterday during an event celebrating the phasing-out of the F-4 F Phantom and the Eurofighter’s new role in Jagdgeschwader 74 German Air Force Three-Star-General Arne Kreuzinger-Janik has declared that “The Eurofighter is combat ready at Neuburg”.

The Commander of the German Air Force Command also responded to media questions at concerning Tranche 3. He confirmed the German Air Force would need the ordered total of 180 Eurofighter Typhoon, this number being confirmed time and time again by the German Parliament. With Eurofighter Typhoon now in full service, the German Air Force can meet international obligations towards NATO and the European Union.

In 1990’s the Germans wanted to withdraw from the Eurofighter project but the could not leave for legal reasons.

Interesting... so the Luftwaffe will basically operate Typhoons only... because if you order all 180 presumably the batch 3 will end up replacing also the Tornado...
I would have expected Germany eventually to also join F35/JSF for at least some Tornado replacement.

cheers

 

[neil]

Interesting... so the Luftwaffe will basically operate Typhoons only... because if you order all 180 presumably the batch 3 will end up replacing also the Tornado...
I would have expected Germany eventually to also join F35/JSF for at least some Tornado replacement.

cheers

I believe the Luftwaffe plan is to operate all 180 Typhoons and some 75 Tornado's for a while. (as from 2015 was mentioned)

After that.. I think it will be Typhoon only yes. (plus maybe a UCAV?)

 

[kato]

I believe the Luftwaffe plan is to operate all 180 Typhoons and some 75 Tornado's for a while. (as from 2015 was mentioned)

Target Structure for Luftwaffe 2017; reduction in wing numbers to be completed 2009:

- 5 x Wing Fighter-Bomber / Eurofighter
- 1 x Wing ECR / Tornado (JBG 32)
- 1 x Wing Recce / Tornado + UAV HALE/MALE (AG 51)
- 2 x Wing Air Transport / A400M
- 1 x Wing Helo Transport / NH90

The Recce Wing will go to only one Tornado squadron in the early 2010s, second squadron will be UAV HALE/MALE. Remaining Tornados (about 80, for four squadrons) to be upgraded for these future roles starting around 2011/2012. UCAVs are potential successor for Tornado for the ECR wing.
Somewhat interesting - at the moment in particular - is what will happen to the nukes, since Eurofighter never had B61-4/7 gravity bombs integrated. If the concept is continued, JBG32 could move and e.g. assign a squadron for that additional task.

edit:
combat wing = 36 aircraft (18 per squadron)
transport wing = 20 aircraft (10 per squadron)
helo wing = 42 aircraft (21 per squadron)

 

[vetrival]

The Eurofighter Typhoon is a major contender in the MMRCA competition which was initiated by India. I have a few questions about the Eurofighter in this regard.

1)Is the consortium offering an AESA radar for the aircrafts they plan to sell to the IAF?

2)When is an AESA radar going to be operational on the Eurofighter?

3)Will the consortium go ahead with the developement of the Tranche-3 aircrafts? If yes then when will it be operational?

Could someone please answer these questions.

 

[swerve]

1) If India wants one, yes, AFAIK.

2) Nobody knows. It depends on political & financial decisions. A better question would be "When could an AESA radar be operational on the Eurofighter, if the decision to field one was taken now?".

3) Yes, because some of the partners want the aircraft, & the agreement binds all partners. But it is possible for Tranche 3 to be reduced in size, if all partners agree. As for when - again, it depends on political & financial decisions which have not yet been taken.

 

[Pingu]

I've heard that there is debate over whether to update the CAPTOR with an AESA intenna (CEASAR), or whether to skip a stage and go straight ahead with a next generation, new build AESA (AMSAR). I'm in favour of the latter, but wonder whether AMSAR would be developed in time for the first build of tranche 3 airframes.

I feel that CFTs should be the next priority. It would be interesting to see how they affect performance. It is said that the typhoon is not capable of "true supercruise" in that it cannot supercruise while loaded with stores such as fuel tanks. Perhaps a CFT equiped Typhoon with a standard load of 4 semi-reccessed Meteors and 4 ASRAAMS would be capable of supercruise or at least a higher and more efficient cruise than is currently facilitated by the current QRA conifguration etc.

As for improved signature reduction and DASS etc, I doubt any of those will be seen as they are of low priority and funds are so tight. As for engines, I would not imagine we will see those either due to the cost of engine developement and the fact that more engine power is not neccesarily required.

One thing that I have always been curious about is to what extent any tranche 3 features will be retrofitted to earlier tranches. If AMSAR is developed, then maybe CEASAR will be adopted for earlier tranches to save money.

Does anyone know where HMS delevopement falls into the current Typhoon developement plans. Is the fully developed HMS going to be seen in tranche 2?

 

[2S1]

3)Will the consortium go ahead with the developement of the Tranche-3 aircrafts? If yes then when will it be operational?

I note the London Times is running a story today that the MoD is looking to sell a further batch of Typhoons to the Saudis, with these coming from the RAF's Tranche-3 allocation.

I would be surprised if a similar proposal was not part of Typhoon's potential Indian MMRCA offer with HAL taking on the bulk of production their initial delivery.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article4493237.ece

 

[ASFC]

Well I would not listen to a British Paper first off-they tend to scare-monger among other things and suffer from the British medias lack of understanding of defence matters.

There is also the fact that the RAF want as many of the 232 as they can get-they don't want to get into a situation where they lose some of the 144 Fleet they intend to operate and have no spares to replace, whether they be from reserves or to purchase.

What is much more likely (having visited 29 Sqn at Coningsby and having been told one of our next Typhoon Sqns might be delayed due to this) is that we will divert some now to the Saudis and save some money and get our full order later on, although details were sketchy as to how it would work out.

 

[Scorpion82]

What is much more likely (having visited 29 Sqn at Coningsby and having been told one of our next Typhoon Sqns might be delayed due to this) is that we will divert some now to the Saudis and save some money and get our full order later on, although details were sketchy as to how it would work out.

It's no news that the No.6 squadron won't stand up in 2009 as originally planned, but in 2011 now due to the Saudi deal. The Saudis will get a first batch of 24 Typhoons (6 twin seaters) which are diverted from RAF Tranche 2 production slots to ensure delivery on schedule starting in 2009. These missing aircraft will be later produced meaning they will be added to the and of Tranche 2. Maybe they will even slip them into T3.

 

[Feanor]

It's no news that the No.6 squadron won't stand up in 2009 as originally planned, but in 2011 now due to the Saudi deal. The Saudis will get a first batch of 24 Typhoons (6 twin seaters) which are diverted from RAF Tranche 2 production slots to ensure delivery on schedule starting in 2009. These missing aircraft will be later produced meaning they will be added to the and of Tranche 2. Maybe they will even slip them into T3.

Talk about setting priorities What do the Saudi's think about getting the Tranche 2 instead of Tranche 3? Why not wait and get the better plane on a more prepared production line?

 

[ASFC]

They are setting their priorities-the 24 Tornado ADV (aka F.3) they own will be orphans in 2010 when the RAF retire theirs, so the Saudis are getting their first Typhoon Squadron going as soon as possible to replace them.

No.6 Sqn were supposed to stand up this year at Leuchars-but they haven't yet.

 

[2S1]

They are setting their priorities-the 24 Tornado ADV (aka F.3) they own will be orphans in 2010 when the RAF retire theirs, so the Saudis are getting their first Typhoon Squadron going as soon as possible to replace them.

No.6 Sqn were supposed to stand up this year at Leuchars-but they haven't yet.

Saudi has already retired their ADV's with their sole squadron standing down last year. One of them is now a Museum exhibit in Riyadh, another is earmarked for possible 'gate-guard' duties.

BAE are overhauling the remaining 20+ ex-RSAF ADVs which were taken back by the supplier as part of the Al Sallam Typhoon deal. What will happen to them is anyone's guess.

 

[ASFC]

Really? All internet sources I have seen suggest that 29 Sqn RSAF still uses them.

I suppose that means the need to get the Typhoons up and running is even more pressing.

 

[2S1]

Really? All internet sources I have seen suggest that 29 Sqn RSAF still uses them.

I suppose that means the need to get the Typhoons up and running is even more pressing.

I can say with certainty that Tabuk's 29 Squadron has now stood down.

There are few up-to-date sources on the internet in concerns RSAF; Scramble for instance still lists their F-5E/F squadrons as active despite actually being deactivated several years ago.

Typhoon's acceptance programme continues. RAF Typhoon's recently deployed to Dhahran to undergo a series of 'hot-and-high' trials which RSAF requested.

 

[Mike_NZ]

What countries are potential Typhoon buyers?

Does anyone know which countries are considering the Typhoon as a possible candidate currently? I know Saudi Arabia and Austria are the only buyers outside the 4 country consortium, but are there likely to be others?