I stand by what I wrote the Tiffy is just now becoming operational. In fact it still really is not fully operational oand as someone pointed out in another thread in this forum the plane is very much still under development.
It was your point? You were trying to make it sound as if the Typhoon had a barely functional radar and basic A2A systems, despite these systems being fully available at this time. I point out that you were reading more into your source than is warrented and you point out the obvious that the RAF squadrons are just becoming fully operational. Strange as it might seem to you, but even the mighty F-22 needs to have it's systems cleared by the engineers and test pilots before they're made available to the frontline squadrons.
So what is your point. Everything points to the story being false. Even if Tiffy had a chance at close range it is a moot argument. Raptor would empty the sky of tiffie long before WVR.
There are three possibilities; one is that it is simply not true, the 2nd is that the Typhoon DID detect the F-22 in the air, either by luck or because the F-22's stealth was temporarily degraded at the time (external pylons, open weapon bays, additional reflectors added for navigational purposes...). The 3rd (least likly) is that they added a prototype bi-static radar capability to the Typhoons radar, which is theoretically possible, but unlikly given the state of the art at this time. None the less your evidence to PROVE that the Typhoon couldn't track the F-22 was based on the F-15 and F-16 being unable to track it, which amounts to nothing.
The trouble with your "Raptor would empty the sky of tiffie before WVR" scenario is that it depends on AMRAAM overcoming the MWS and the TRDs, despite the fact that they're designed specifically to decoy AMRAAM class home-on-jam capable missiles. Also that your F-22s are so expensive that to make the scenario fair you have to have 2:5 ratio of F-22s to Typhoons. Also it would be advisable (if you want to put your F-22s into a scenario which will actually challenge them to the limit) to provide the Typhoon side with at least ground-based stealth-detecting radar infomation provided to them by datalink. Only then will we actually see if the F-22s are actually worth the money.
F-15E is a heavily modified F-15 and is considered by most to be the first 4.5 gen fighter/bomber. Calling the F-111 a fighter would be charitable at best. It was first and foremost a bomber.
Anyway what is your point. Never have I seen someone argue so much on something so meanlingless and be so wrong. Are you German?
I am trying to show that your "generation" concept is very difficult to sustain and that the real world is significantly more messy. Stamping "4.5" in big letters on the Typhoon, F-15K and Super Hornet and "5.0" in big GOLD letters on the F-22 does not really tell us any thing about their respective capabilities. It doesn't tell us whether F-22 will prove to be cost effective in 10 years time, and it doesn't tell us which will provide a more cost effective counter to a hostile airforce flying advanced Flanker and Fulcrums now.
Well first off there are planes that outperform tiffy already, but no raw performance really has much less significance than it used to have. You are right about everything you listed .. towed radar decoys, mmw-based MWS, link 16 and sensor fusion, add AESA, a modicum of signature management, the ability to carry a large range of stores, the best BVE missile in the world (AIM120D), etc. But I have two questions for you. What makes you think other 4.5 and 5 th gen fighters do not have some or all of these toyes and what makes you think tiffy has naywhere near all of them now?
I think you're proceeding from a misunderstanding, I'm NOT claiming that the Typhoon has an advantage over the opposition of anything like the same magnitude as F-22. But I am claiming that it is still the 2nd best, though the advantage is much smaller. The fundamental advantage it possesses is the ability of launch AMRAAM from higher altitude and speed than was normal for previous fighters, and the ability to turn away faster while maintaining more speed and altitude.
Most previous fighters cannot fly faster than about Mach 1.8 or higher than about 50-55,000' when carrying a normal air-air missile load (whatever their published clean figures say). They also become very stable in pitch at supersonic speeds and their agility, while good at subsonic speeds, was consequently very limited during a supersonic dash.
Typhoon is regarded as being clean when carrying 4 MRM and 2 SRM, and can reach Mach 2.0 and up to 60-65,000' in that condition. It is also so unstable when subsonic, that it only becomes conventionally stable when supersonic (as the center of lift moves rearward) consequently it is still able to maneuver without suffering significant drag. This should make it 2nd only to the F-22 with regard to combat flight performance. I regard this as being a useful advantage in combat.