currently neither the IN can take on PLAAN in Chinese waters, nor PLAAN can take on IN in the Indian Ocean. Ten years from now, the IN will be way more formidible, I'ld expect it to have 3 carriers, 10-12 more of the improved Talwar/Delhi class frigates, and prolly many of thos enew ATV subs, along with already leased Russian nuke subs.
do China induct any Air Craft Carrier in next 5-10 years?
- Thread starter yasin_khan
- Start date
doggychow14
New Member
so will the chinese navy....except their advnaced weapons will be mostly made by themselves. in another ten years, china might have their own carriers, they will have more aegis class ships, they will have a nuclear attack sub and a new boomer, they might have the 051C ready, they will have more yuan class subs, they will have the c-805 ready, and who knows wat else.
doggy, don't post things that aren't certain or can't be confirmed. C-805?? C-803 just got into service and haven't even finish evaluation yet, where does C-805 come from?? Yuan class is still under construction, highly unlikely China will be able to put its capability to full use so soon. New boombers requires a few years to test and train its crew. You are speaking like you are the head of PLA naval command.
doggychow14
New Member
i am speaking about the future 10-12 years in the future if u look back in my post.
And that assumes that the navies of the US, Russia, India and Japan will not develop and improve their navies even further??doggychow14 said:
Japan hasn't even begun to flex it's capacity to build a proper navy and are already probably the 4th most capable navy in the world. As soon as they even whiff that China will be a future threat, they will change their constitution faster than you can drink a glass of water. They're already setting up their people for change - it will happen. If that's the case then woe betide anyone who irritates them and looks for a fight.
RealIndian
New Member
Fully agree with you. If Japan concentrates in defence it will be 2nd best in the world in terms of technology and size (Ahead of UK, France & Russia ) even a challenge to the USN , forget china.gf0012-aust said:
dabrownguy
New Member
Gotta love those Japanese and their school girls. 
I am bias but believe me when I say that the IN is more capable than the PLAAN. China still uses old escorts while India has begun to decommision them and gaining new ones. Do not forget that China still uses largely Russian weapons and these are not the newest varients either. Russia perfers to sell China dated models because really no country can trust the Chinese engineers yet. :alian2
IN has started induncting the Russian cruise missile while also trying it to fit on the MiG-29K Indian version with it and the Flanker MKI. India is taking its time to do the projects right with forign help ie Italy, Russia and Isreal.: The nuke sub India is building is getting probabily majour Russian help unlike the Chinese on their FIRST nuke sub. To top this off the Indian fleet is better armed and also building fast with realitivily greater quality compared to their Chinese counter-parts.
BACK TO TOPIC
If China does engage in building a Carrier it would have to be small, and would need large forign help form most likily Russia to develop a powerplant, ski-jump and most of the designs. They probabily don't want their first carrier to sink to they? or maybe they do.
I am bias but believe me when I say that the IN is more capable than the PLAAN. China still uses old escorts while India has begun to decommision them and gaining new ones. Do not forget that China still uses largely Russian weapons and these are not the newest varients either. Russia perfers to sell China dated models because really no country can trust the Chinese engineers yet. :alian2
IN has started induncting the Russian cruise missile while also trying it to fit on the MiG-29K Indian version with it and the Flanker MKI. India is taking its time to do the projects right with forign help ie Italy, Russia and Isreal.
: The nuke sub India is building is getting probabily majour Russian help unlike the Chinese on their FIRST nuke sub. To top this off the Indian fleet is better armed and also building fast with realitivily greater quality compared to their Chinese counter-parts.BACK TO TOPIC
If China does engage in building a Carrier it would have to be small, and would need large forign help form most likily Russia to develop a powerplant, ski-jump and most of the designs. They probabily don't want their first carrier to sink to they? or maybe they do.
dabrownguy said:
Couple of points:
I'd argue that at this point in time Indias Navy is stronger.
China however is going through rapid block replacement cycles. If India does not maintain a decent block replacement programme themselves, then China will surpass them in new build vessels.
China is using Russian weapons, but she is also developing her own variants as she does not want to be beholden to an external supplier (much like the Russians, US philosophy).
The Chinese version of the Su-27 is considered by western intelligence to be better than the Russian built models. Their Mig 21 iteration is considered to be the best of all the upgraded Mig 21 versions.
India has a superior ASW capability, better blue water capability, better force projection, and a better expeditionary capability.
5-10 years time will be an interesting period to see who is making real progress.
Communist nations has a tradition of keeping their equipment eventhough they are outdated. You could still find T-34 in reserve status in Russia back in the mid 80's. Also IN maybe be getting more advanced equipment from Russia or the west, but they are mostly purchased while China is already able to build some fairly advanced vessels(With some degree of Russian asistance i have to add) so don't overlook that. In this point in time I say the Indian navy is a slight step ahead of PLAN. But neither of them can defeat each other near their home water. While India has more advanced equipment available to them, China's has slightly more locally produced systems thus less dependent on foreign suppliers. Also China's first generation sub was something they were proud of, since they developed it without any Russian asistance(Soviets withdrew all asistance in the early 1960's), although noisy and the reactor wasn't very safe, they managed to pull it off.dabrownguy said:Gotta love those Japanese and their school girls.
I am bias but believe me when I say that the IN is more capable than the PLAAN. China still uses old escorts while India has begun to decommision them and gaining new ones. Do not forget that China still uses largely Russian weapons and these are not the newest varients either. Russia perfers to sell China dated models because really no country can trust the Chinese engineers yet. :alian2
IN has started induncting the Russian cruise missile while also trying it to fit on the MiG-29K Indian version with it and the Flanker MKI. India is taking its time to do the projects right with forign help ie Italy, Russia and Isreal.
BACK TO TOPIC
If China does engage in building a Carrier it would have to be small, and would need large forign help form most likily Russia to develop a powerplant, ski-jump and most of the designs. They probabily don't want their first carrier to sink to they? or maybe they do.
last paragraph is just nonsense. China is capable of building oil tankers over a hundred thousand ton. Building the carrier hull themselves should be no problem, but the difficult part is the cataphult and radar system. Now that they need Russian asistance on. Brownguy, you view got too much bias like some patriotic chinese member here.
The most difficult part of building a carrier is getting the bunkerage right. China has worked out that it is an issue, and I suspect that their reason for buying 3 surplus aircraft carriers was to look at the design differences WRT to bunkerage.
Building a vessel to trap and launch planes is not difficult - getting the bunkerage issues right is.
The most difficult part after that will be designing the catapult system. The UK and France use US catapult systems, and IIRC France does not even have access to the latest Cat 14's used by the USN CVN's. That means that they will have to modify russian designs or look at what the maximum plane weight will be that can be launched.
The Russians don't have Cat systems as capable as the US, as can be seen by the fact that the Indian Mig-29's have been lightened so as to be used.
Building a vessel to trap and launch planes is not difficult - getting the bunkerage issues right is.
The most difficult part after that will be designing the catapult system. The UK and France use US catapult systems, and IIRC France does not even have access to the latest Cat 14's used by the USN CVN's. That means that they will have to modify russian designs or look at what the maximum plane weight will be that can be launched.
The Russians don't have Cat systems as capable as the US, as can be seen by the fact that the Indian Mig-29's have been lightened so as to be used.
GF isn't the French using their own design of cataphult on their carrier?? They are one of the few nations that are able to produce it so it doesn't make sense to use a foreign one.
No, last I heard the one on the Charles de Gaulle is a (license built) Mk 13. It's also a contentious issue on the new combined UK/France CV design as it uses US catapults. The US has indicated that it is unwilling for France to get access to it's latest catapult technology. That means to all intents and purposes that the UK will not be able to get France to cost share the carrier build programme.Pathfinder-X said:
IIRC the other French Carriers use license built versions of the US Mk 4.
doggychow14
New Member
china building their carriers would still be an achievement. India buys their carriers. china seems to have started on the path to build support ships like the 052C ("red aegis"), 052B and 054. They also seem to be trying to obtain carrier capable jets, like the j-10. only time will tell.
That's very true, but the main thing is that India has the legacy of being a Carrier operator for over 40 years (??) so they have considerable advantage in understanding how to run blue water fleet exercises. You cannot get that knowledge through simulators - you have to be the real deal.doggychow14 said:
China is building capable platforms, but it needs a few years to become accustomed to running fleet ops at a tactical level. Then they have to work out how to manage combined ops - and that will be without the advantage of dissimilar theatre training. None of Chinas allies have any notion of running theatre events at the dissimilar training level.
That is an enormous imposition - and it cannot be learned in 2-3 years. That is probably a 5-10 year cycle once they have all their assets in place.
doggychow14
New Member
mmm good points. do u think the xxj will be carrier based? i think by then China might have a carrier or 2.
It's almost impossible to say. Without seeing specs for the aircraft, without having an idea of what sized vessel China is considering, it is almost impossible to assess.doggychow14 said:
China would need to either customise a Mig29 (like India) or build a carrier version of a new aircraft. Unless their current aircraft are designed for carrier ops they will be unsuitable and the expense to make them carrier friendly will be cost inefficient.
doggychow14
New Member
i thought they would use the j-10?
Well, they probably will. But it still has yet to be tailhook tested on a 10m swell on a pitching 30 degree flight deck. The 3 aircraft carriers that china has received to date were not in a launch capable condition, so no aircraft could be tested on them for robustness and technology issues. The only vessel that still had launches in place was HMAS Melbourne, and even they were stripped. You could not use them as the design basis for a catapult system as the maximum aircraft weight they could cope with was an E2C ASW Tracker and the Skyhawk. The J-10 is considerably heavier. That means that a complete cat redesign is essential. Thats something that China has never done before and has no real expertise in configuring the engines and valve systems of a large vessel to create steam etc for launches.doggychow14 said:
Putting a tailhook on a plane does not make it carrier ready. You would be optimistic about the J-10 being ready when China has not had access to any carrier designed aircraft as reference points. The F-16 and Lavi were not designed for rigorous traps and launches, so they are useless as a reference point.
Or China could always forget about the catapult and use a Russian style ram, but that way it's almost impossible to accomodate heavy fighters or AWACS aircarfts on to the carrier.
Revival_786
New Member
Or simply forget catapult/ram systems and go with magnetic launch systems (but might take long for R&D)