Dassault Rafale
- Thread starter DragonBane
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Libya claimed to have signed MoU on 14 Rafales
In the latest issue of Air International it is claimed that Libya signed an MoU on the acquisition of 14 Rafales from France on December 10th. Anyone know any more on this?
Mod edit:
Merged, it ain't real hard to find this sort of info on the boards. Perhaps people could try that before opening a similar thread?
It took me all of 3 minutes to find this thread AND merge the 2...
AD
In the latest issue of Air International it is claimed that Libya signed an MoU on the acquisition of 14 Rafales from France on December 10th. Anyone know any more on this?
Mod edit:
Merged, it ain't real hard to find this sort of info on the boards. Perhaps people could try that before opening a similar thread?
It took me all of 3 minutes to find this thread AND merge the 2...
AD
Last edited by a moderator:
DefConGuru
New Member
this was one misguided thread.
Any thoughts on wether France will indeed buy the full compliment of Rafales it plans to?
French defence minister Morin recently said that France will maintain the full spectrum of military capabilities, including independant reconnaissance and intelligence gathering capabilitries, even though they are shrinking the military.
President Sarkosy also said he intends to maintain defence spending at 2% of GDP and it appears that he is fully funding the final year of the 2003-2008 military spending plan(drawn up by the previous administration). What happens after this year will reveal more of his intentions..
The above comments from these two gentlemen do not however, provide real insight on numbers of Rafales that will actually be purchased.
I know that any comments at this stage would be speculation(since no one can predict the future)..
Any thoughts or new facts would be interesting though..
French defence minister Morin recently said that France will maintain the full spectrum of military capabilities, including independant reconnaissance and intelligence gathering capabilitries, even though they are shrinking the military.
President Sarkosy also said he intends to maintain defence spending at 2% of GDP and it appears that he is fully funding the final year of the 2003-2008 military spending plan(drawn up by the previous administration). What happens after this year will reveal more of his intentions..
The above comments from these two gentlemen do not however, provide real insight on numbers of Rafales that will actually be purchased.
I know that any comments at this stage would be speculation(since no one can predict the future)..
Any thoughts or new facts would be interesting though..
The problem with the Rafale is that budget cuts have significantly reduced planned buys in addition to the fact that export sales have been abysmal-resulting in no cost savings or offsets to the program.
This has not been helped by the fact that there is a generally held view that its main competitor the Typhoon has substantially superior A2A performance (and increasingly A2G) and that Dassault's Spectra OSF system in the Rafale has yet to prove itself. Future sales of the Rafale look bleak, not helped by Dassault's obnoxious sales tactics added to the fact that other rivals such as the Gripen and upcoming F-35 have outright advantages in specialised areas such as strong A2A performance/short takeoff/compatability with US and EU logistical systems and stores and the latter A2G/Electronic surveillance-while the Rafale can be described as "a jack of all trades but a master of none" in terms of these areas.
Maybe Dassault can get a few sales in Brazil or maybe UAE-there is still hope even as small as it is.
This has not been helped by the fact that there is a generally held view that its main competitor the Typhoon has substantially superior A2A performance (and increasingly A2G) and that Dassault's Spectra OSF system in the Rafale has yet to prove itself. Future sales of the Rafale look bleak, not helped by Dassault's obnoxious sales tactics added to the fact that other rivals such as the Gripen and upcoming F-35 have outright advantages in specialised areas such as strong A2A performance/short takeoff/compatability with US and EU logistical systems and stores and the latter A2G/Electronic surveillance-while the Rafale can be described as "a jack of all trades but a master of none" in terms of these areas.
Maybe Dassault can get a few sales in Brazil or maybe UAE-there is still hope even as small as it is.
The Rafale is an interesting prospect for Brazil and India:
1) Both have new fighter requirements, India (MRCA), Brazil (FX-2)
2) Both operate the Mirage 2000
3) The Rafale M is carrier capable (CATOBAR). Brazilians have CATOBAR, India has STOBAR.
1) Both have new fighter requirements, India (MRCA), Brazil (FX-2)
2) Both operate the Mirage 2000
3) The Rafale M is carrier capable (CATOBAR). Brazilians have CATOBAR, India has STOBAR.
Brazil FX-2
Hi Salty Dog
Can I ask you a question about Brazil.
Was it a money issue or politics that stop the FX-1 bid from purchasing fighters a few year ago? Picking up the Mirage 2000-C are a help but the 2000-5 are more capable, maybe they were out of production already?
In your opinion how does the Rafale match up against a Su-30MK2 Flanker, basically the same type Venezuela bought? I've been hunting around little and there isn't a lot of comparisons between the two base on real facts. Do you know if France and India held any training together? Always thought that was a cool idea for a threat list all modern aircraft that trained against each other. Thanks
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Wink
Hi Salty Dog
Can I ask you a question about Brazil.
Was it a money issue or politics that stop the FX-1 bid from purchasing fighters a few year ago? Picking up the Mirage 2000-C are a help but the 2000-5 are more capable, maybe they were out of production already?
In your opinion how does the Rafale match up against a Su-30MK2 Flanker, basically the same type Venezuela bought? I've been hunting around little and there isn't a lot of comparisons between the two base on real facts. Do you know if France and India held any training together? Always thought that was a cool idea for a threat list all modern aircraft that trained against each other. Thanks
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink
The Mirage 2000C were a fraction of the cost of new Mirage 2000-5. The Mirage 2000-5 Mk II was a contender for the FX, & the 2000C buy was only 3 months after that was canned, so certainly it would have been possible to buy the M2K-5. Dassault was still hoping India would buy it at that point; indeed, the IAF wanted to buy it, but politicians had other ideas.
Money and politics cancelled the FX-1 program. The Mirage 2000C was bought used to urgently replace Mirage III's that were retired.
Brazil has not held any training with India as far as I know.
I'm not keen to make fighter comparisons, sorry to disappoint you. While there are many criteria, I believe fighters are chosen to meet mission requirements.
Rafale
Thanks Salty Dog for your input and I'm rooting for the Rafale for Brazil I think the aircraft would serve your air force well and meet mission requirements. Is Brazil's carrier larger enough to launch/land Rafale M?
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Thanks Salty Dog for your input and I'm rooting for the Rafale for Brazil I think the aircraft would serve your air force well and meet mission requirements. Is Brazil's carrier larger enough to launch/land Rafale M?
Not India and Brazil.
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Scorpion82
New Member
Well I know at least Su-30K visiting France back in 2004, but I'm not sure about exercises involving the Su-30MKI.
The Brazilian aircraft carrier São Paulo is the ex-French carrier Foch. It was aboard the Foch that the Rafale M made the first sea trials. So a big yes to Rafale capability on the São Paulo.Thanks Salty Dog for your input and I'm rooting for the Rafale for Brazil I think the aircraft would serve your air force well and meet mission requirements. Is Brazil's carrier larger enough to launch/land Rafale M?
Not India and Brazil.
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And yes, there have been numerous air training exercises between Brazil and France.
Finally, . . . my air force flies the F-22 and my navy the F/A-18.
France
Thanks Scorpion82 that's the kind of information I'm looking for. That's why I started the Joint air exercise threat http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7390.
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Thanks Scorpion82 that's the kind of information I'm looking for. That's why I started the Joint air exercise threat http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7390.
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São Paulo is the ex-French carrier Foch
Thanks Salty Dog I didn't know that so if funding is found Brazil's Navy maybe launching shinny brand new M Rafale's one day off it's deck. If a Rafale deal is ever worked out I hope Brazil gets some production rights, I always been impressed with there aircraft industry.
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Thanks Salty Dog I didn't know that so if funding is found Brazil's Navy maybe launching shinny brand new M Rafale's one day off it's deck. If a Rafale deal is ever worked out I hope Brazil gets some production rights, I always been impressed with there aircraft industry.
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True, but I would expect Rafale to be somewhat limited in T/O weight & hence load from São Paulo.