Chinese Air Force (PLA-AF) News and Discussion

[Boagrius]

War is Boring have an article on it: New Chinese Air-to-Air Missile Could Hit U.S. Jets Before They Can Shoot Back.

Yeah, although as soon as I see David Axe's name attached to anything I have developed a natural tendency to run from the room screaming haha

Certainly interesting though. Perhaps a necessary step to give their sizeable 4th gen fleet more relevance over the coming decades. If used more as arsenal planes I suppose you could have them lobbing these weapons from the rear with other sensors (eg. LO J20/31) providing the targeting data. Perhaps a tough ask against F35 and F22 but potentially quite dangerous for any non-VLO platforms in the US/allied arsenal.

 

[ngatimozart]

The PLA-AF have received the first four of their 24 Su-35s from Russia. According to the article this will be the last Chinese acquisition of foreign combat aircraft.

 

[John Fedup]

The PLA-AF have received the first four of their 24 Su-35s from Russia. According to the article this will be the last Chinese acquisition of foreign combat aircraft.

With their J-20 and J-31 programs nearing full production, the end of foreign acquisitions seems logical. Also, the only possible jet that they might be interested in is the PAK 50 TA and Russia wouldn't be keen on exporting their most modern tech anytime soon. They took their time the Su-35 export to China. It will be interesting to see how their fighter engine technology progresses. This could be one area where Russia might still receive export orders from China.

 

[John Fedup]

This link announces that the J-20 will have domestically produced engines in future. The article implies China still has a way to go towards matching Russian technology, let alone Western technology.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/chinas-j-20-set-to-receive-indigenous-engine-435075/

 

[gf0012-aust]

mixed bag article on J-20 and other devs

China stealth jet enters service, navy building 'first class' fleet | defenceWeb

 

[gf0012-aust]

additional op-ed on J20

Does China’s J-20 rival other stealth fighters? | China Power Project

 

[John Fedup]

WS15 engine performance will likely dictate how effective this jet will be kinematically. Claims that this engine will match the F119 seem pretty ambitious given that Russia hasn't done this yet and they have much more expertise than China in this area. As for stealth, Koop and company say it has some...for what it's worth.

 

[King Wally]

As for stealth, Koop and company say it has some...for what it's worth.

Hey I'm certainly no expert but I can't help but look at those canards up front and seriously wonder what that does to the important RCS from the frontal approaches?

 

[gf0012-aust]

As for stealth, Koop and company say it has some...for what it's worth.

well, that shows how useless stealth/LO/VLO is - after all they've mocked and derided the issue of stealth in the past

looks like the chinese, russians, japanese still haven't learned how useless stealth is

/sarcasm off

 

[John Fedup]

well, that shows how useless stealth/LO/VLO is - after all they've mocked and derided the issue of stealth in the past

looks like the chinese, russians, japanese still haven't learned how useless stealth is

/sarcasm off

Junior likely considers their work as pretty much biblical. uke

 

[xinhui]

"Air Power 101 for New Members" was a good read, thanks guys. Anyways, not sure this has been covered here or not, but the China Air force is in the midst of a major reorg, converting most, if not all, of her air Div/Regt into Air Brigades (AB). Thus far, most of the new AB are single bird type, some has multiple variants of the same bird (Su-27, J-11A, etc). The most extreme example being the 6th AB, with Su-30MKK, Su-27SK, J-11BS and now Su-35S.

Air Brigade > Dadui (group) > Zhongdui (squadron) > Fendui(combat detachment). A Dadui commander in this new Brigade structure has a "battalion grade" while the deputy commander of the AB enjoys a "regiment grade".

 

[OPSSG]

"Air Power 101 for New Members" was a good read, thanks guys. Anyways, not sure this has been covered here or not, but the China Air force is in the midst of a major reorg, converting most, if not all, of her air Div/Regt into Air Brigades (AB). Thus far, most of the new AB are single bird type, some has multiple variants of the same bird (Su-27, J-11A, etc). The most extreme example being the 6th AB, with Su-30MKK, Su-27SK, J-11BS and now Su-35S.

Air Brigade > Dadui (group) > Zhongdui (squadron) > Fendui(combat detachment). A Dadui commander in this new Brigade structure has a "battalion grade" while the deputy commander of the AB enjoys a "regiment grade".

Thanks for the update, and 6th AB probably has a role in developing tactics.

Do they have dedicated units playing an aggressor type role?

 

[xinhui]

That is the same conclusion drawn by Pros at the USAF as well. Before the China AirForce (TM) inducts a new bird, it generally spend a period of time at the the flight test center (FTTC) at Dingxin air base for some high level works. J-20, Su-35, J-16 were at FTTC for more than 6 months before inducing to a line unit. As for Blue Army Bad Guys, yes, both the China Airforce and the China Navy Naval Aviation (TM) have dedicated units acting as such. Interestingly enough both benches use Su-30MKK dedicated as the blue bad guys. The China Navy Naval Aviation (CNNA) blue bad guys Fendui also sporting a color scheme that is similar to that of the Vietnam People's Air Force, figured they would be the likely OpForce facing the CNNA.

Additionally, they also have their version of the annual "Red Flag" and "William Tell" too, those events are widely covered by local media.

 

[FORBIN]

And rumor that swells J-20 for 9th Bde to Wuhu to see

JH-7A

 

[John Fedup]

This link is a general review of the Chinese 5th GEN programs to date.

China's J-20 Stealth Fighter Today and Into the 2020s

 

[SABRE]

WS15 engine performance will likely dictate how effective this jet will be kinematically. Claims that this engine will match the F119 seem pretty ambitious given that Russia hasn't done this yet and they have much more expertise than China in this area. As for stealth, Koop and company say it has some...for what it's worth.

Indeed, claiming WS15's performance to be equal to F119 sounds pretty ambitious. But the Chinese have had a good espionage system in place for tech theft, which the Russians don't seem to have or don't have one as good as the Chinese. I think we will find out in a decade or so how good the WS15 is or if China can actually come up with something like F119 or F135.

 

[John Fedup]

Espionage alone isn't enough, it is hands on manufacturing expertise accumulated over decades that is also necessary to produce military grade jet engines. This is why China is a distant third from the US and still needs to import Russian engines which have proven to be superior to domestic Chinese copies.

 

[ngatimozart]

Indeed, claiming WS15's performance to be equal to F119 sounds pretty ambitious. But the Chinese have had a good espionage system in place for tech theft, which the Russians don't seem to have or don't have one as good as the Chinese. I think we will find out in a decade or so how good the WS15 is or if China can actually come up with something like F119 or F135.

Espionage alone isn't enough, it is hands on manufacturing expertise accumulated over decades that is also necessary to produce military grade jet engines. This is why China is a distant third from the US and still needs to import Russian engines which have proven to be superior to domestic Chinese copies.

The only problem the Chinese have with their engines is the metallurgy side of things, and they will catch up. It's something that has to be learned over time through experience, failure, espionage, experiment etc., and a lot quicker than some people think.

 

[John Fedup]

The only problem the Chinese have with their engines is the metallurgy side of things, and they will catch up. It's something that has to be learned over time through experience, failure, espionage, experiment etc., and a lot quicker than some people think.

I think it will be longer than you think. The experience factor is key. The Chinese still can't match Russian engines even after having access to working Russian engines. The Russians still lag behind the US after decades of experience. China's financial resources will speed things up to a degree and they will match the Russians within 10 years or less.

 

[Ananda]

Janes | Latest defence and security news

Janes | The latest defence and security news from Janes - the trusted source for defence intelligence

www.janes.com

Seems Chinese AF already confidence enough with performance of WS-10. Despite all the talks on WS-15 as powerplant for the future, WS-10 will be the main engine for some time as this will be engine for J-10 and all Flankers variance they have.