Brunei Corvettes
- Thread starter Pusser01
- Start date
contedicavour
New Member
Jane's would have written about it. I doubt that any ship has been formally accepted into service....I know that this thread has been dead for a while, but some recent scuttlebutt I've heard seems to indicate that things are about to change.
Can ANYONE confirm that the Brunei Navy has finally accepted the ships & is ready to take them away...?
cheers
Sorry, I should correct my English....
By using the phrase "accepted", I was actually enquiring whether the dispute, in which the Bruneian Gov't. / Navy where not prepared to take the ships from the UK (as they were not meeting their standards), had officially been resolved.
I didn't mean that the Bruneian Navy was using them to sail about the Mallacca Straights, chasing pirates.
...& as for the call to the Naval base.....
Well, only a foolish newspaper reporter would even attempt that one.
...Worth a call to one of the "Tabliods" in the UK maybe...?
nfloorl: nfloorl:
By using the phrase "accepted", I was actually enquiring whether the dispute, in which the Bruneian Gov't. / Navy where not prepared to take the ships from the UK (as they were not meeting their standards), had officially been resolved.
I didn't mean that the Bruneian Navy was using them to sail about the Mallacca Straights, chasing pirates.
...& as for the call to the Naval base.....
Well, only a foolish newspaper reporter would even attempt that one.
...Worth a call to one of the "Tabliods" in the UK maybe...?
nfloorl: nfloorl:http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nakhoda/
is this the class or is it another?
here is another
http://navyleag.customer.netspace.net.au/fc_07pos.htm
some recent interesting news
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/221598/an//page//vc/1
hearing supposed to be concluded in july last year, i think they did take delivery of 1 vessel which visited australia last year thats why there is 2 in the river.
is this the class or is it another?
here is another
http://navyleag.customer.netspace.net.au/fc_07pos.htm
some recent interesting news
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/221598/an//page//vc/1
hearing supposed to be concluded in july last year, i think they did take delivery of 1 vessel which visited australia last year thats why there is 2 in the river.
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Yes Sparta,
Correct ships, however all three are still berthed in Glasgow.
Correct ships, however all three are still berthed in Glasgow.
Here's a relevant article I lifted from spiderweb6969 on the Singapore Militarynuts.com forum ...
i) So it looks like the dispute is resolved and they're now looking to offload the OPVs ... what price I wonder?
ii) BAE taking the frigates out for a "walk" every six months could explain why there's sometimes less than the full complement of 3 berthed at Glasgow.
Anyone looking for an instant small navy? Three 95 metre corvettes, with Oto 76mm Super Rapid & a couple of 30mm, Exocet Block II, VL Seawolf, torpedo tubes, helicopter deck. One careful owner. As new.
might be handy of the coast of Iran for gunboat plinkingAnyone looking for an instant small navy? Three 95 metre corvettes, with Oto 76mm Super Rapid & a couple of 30mm, Exocet Block II, VL Seawolf, torpedo tubes, helicopter deck. One careful owner. As new.
and havering a lower draft than the full size frigerts. just rip off the exocets and its ready to replace HMS Conwall
Given the current discussion in the NZ Navy forum discussion perhaps this is one way of getting a reasonably cheap OPV with pretty decent fire power.
It won't happen..... but you would have to guess that these will sell at a pretty good price and should be attravtive to a smaller navy.
It won't happen..... but you would have to guess that these will sell at a pretty good price and should be attravtive to a smaller navy.
contedicavour
New Member
Well it all depends on the price. The VLS Seawolf is one rare system nowadays (outside of the RN) and might prove a handicap.
Chile might have taken them if it hadn't already taken 3 type 23, 1 type 22b2 and the 4 Dutch frigates.
Brazil might be interested as it has Seawolf and Exocet and there is no replacement for the old ex USN FFs.
Last but not least, why not Malaysia which also operates both missiles and where the local Meko programme is off to a very slow start.
cheers
Chile might have taken them if it hadn't already taken 3 type 23, 1 type 22b2 and the 4 Dutch frigates.
Brazil might be interested as it has Seawolf and Exocet and there is no replacement for the old ex USN FFs.
Last but not least, why not Malaysia which also operates both missiles and where the local Meko programme is off to a very slow start.
cheers
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Out of curiousity, how difficult would it be to replace the Seawolf & VLS with a Mk-41, -48 or -56 VLS carrying ESSM? Or, could the Seawolf just be replaced with ESSM and the VLS kept as is? Similar question on swapping the Exocet (MM-40 right?) for Harpoon Block II or other similar AShM?
IMV the three corvettes would be a good addition to the RNZN fleet, particularly if modified to use the same munitions as other RNZN or RAN vessels. Having said that, I can't see it happening. Project Protector is well underway with HMNZS Canterbury having entered into service recently and IIRC the two OPVs are due to be commissioned over the next year, with one having already been launched. And given current numbers of naval personnel the RNZN is already expected to run into manning issues with addition of just the MRV (Canterbury) and OPV 1 & 2. Now if three corvettes were added in as well, then the RNZN would have even greater difficulties. Given the current stage of construction, AFAIK steel has been cut for all vessels except IPV 3 & 4 possibly, and the IPVs are direct replacements for the current Moa IPV, then I can't see the RNZN cancelling.
As for Malaysia, I would think the TLDM could make very good use of them, particularly if they are offered at significant discounts. The design as I understand it was generally speaking supposed to be a smaller version of the TLDM Lekiu-class FFG with similar weapons with most of the weapons already in Malaysian service. Given the potential similarities I would imagine it being relatively easy to integrate into the existing force structure. Also, depending on costs, I could see additional units being ordered in place of some of the Kedah OPVs assuming the TLDM did want a total of 26 units.
-Cheers
MK 41 - even self-defence length - is a lot bigger than Seawolf VLS launchers. Unlikely it'd fit. Mk 48 & Mk 56 are smaller, but still quite a bit bigger than VL Seawolf launchers, because the missile is much bigger. ESSM is almost twice as long, a bit fatter, over 3 times the weight. Not just a different missile, a different class of missile. And fitting ESSM in place of Seawolf could mean more than just changing the launchers. Control systems, illuminators, main radar - would any of them work?
You could fit Mica VL into the Seawolf launchers.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Thanks for the info Swerve, I have to admit a great deal of ignorance on the BAE Seawolf and it's VLS launcher. The info I have was mostly regarding the Seawolf during the Falklands and therefore somewhat dated.
As for switching the weaponry (or the idea of doing so rather) it would of course need to be tested, etc. to ensure that the shipboard electronics would work with the new armament.
As an aside, could Mistral be adapted for VLS operation from the VLS?
-Cheers
Putting Mistral in there might be possible, but it'd be a bit of a waste of the VLS, since Mistral launchers are small enough that it should be easy to find room for some, if wanted.
Alpha Epsilon
New Member
Malaysia probably won't happen because BAE Systems is close to signing a new contract for two new frigates for the RMN.
Well, not really. Few points from my view.
1. The ship is too light to be a frigate, too heavy to be a PV, either way, it just not fit into our navy structure.
2. We already have our MEKOs, custom made for each of them!
3. unlikely to cost much more less then a MEKO, in term of initial price and operate cost.
4. Its a big mess there, nego after nego, time lost, nothing earned, can even take the time to build a MEKO from sketch.
contedicavour
New Member
You certainly know more than us about the Malaysian Navy, but if I recall correctly the situation was similar a few years ago when we sold you the Laksamana/Assad light missile corvettes. Not exactly adapted to fleet requirements, still the Navy bought them because it needed extra strength fast and the price was good.
Malaysia has several relatively old FAC(M)s requiring replacement and the MEKO programme is extremely late and risks provoking holes in the fleet.
cheers
Yes, i covered my points but is not clear tho'
Laksamana was then a good buy because,
*Iraq already been ignored, those vessels were considered "dont have an owner", and therefore only 2 parties (RMN-ITA) involved, where else now, 3. And do remind that Iraq paid, which gave ITA a good reason to just sell them off.>>>my previous 4th point .
*At that time, RMN had only 2 obsolete Kasturi Frigates, a coast guard size fleet surrounding by neighbor's fierceful navy. Quick power build-up is the best solution.
*The origin Assad corvette was design to perform hit and run mission in gulf geography, or a "deterrent effect" strategy. And nevertheless, strong fire power led RMN to another level. Another reason to be a good buy.
And now we compare,
*These vessel involved at least 3 parties. Brunei especially, our close neighbor, price low may up sad them (diplomatic crisis?), price high we might lost.
*We have our plans, everything running according to it, not in the best, but can considered smooth. MEKO back on track (at least initial 6), subs are in good track, new Frigates coming, can dream for LPD...
*Nakhoda Ragam is a minimized, simplified Lekiu. Altho' fire power is somehow equal to a Lekiu, but the overall design is handicap for RMN. Now, to keep it as corvette, ASW is urgent (hardly has room), at least to add a accommodation for the heli, if not heli will be just another waste. To keep it as OPV, 16x VLS missiles are too costly to armed and operate. Powerplant is too strong for regular patrol (the MEKO chose lower power diesel engine). Conclusion here is cost to reconfiguration is like endless, not to mention, most likely Brunei will include the VIP class parking fee at Yarrow SB.
*Before RMN do anything, what to do with this vessel or how to stuck into current structure is already a big headache.
Lastly, my little premonition tell me that affordable navy like RMN and RSN will focus their backbone power on heavier vessel (3000+ tons). And therefore, NGPV too will only be light armed for patrol and security duty.
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I've read thru these comments with interest...
Here are some points to discuss / think about.
Todjaeger, made the point about replacing the Sea Wolf VLS system. At present the system is a derivative of the system fitted to the RN Type 23 Frigates, but is probably closer to the system fitted to the RMN Lekiu corvettes. The RN would love these boats, (armament of an FFG, but in an OPV's skin / highly automated, fewer personnel required), but I have a feeling that the cost would be out with budget constraints.
The system as is, is complete & will work. Other than testing it to prove to the customer that it would work, both the Sea Wolf & Exocet are unused.
Why then, would anyone want to rip out a "new" system, just to replace it with another manufacturers product that would do the same job?
Outlay to buy the ships, then retro fit them would be extremely expensive, in comparison to actually going to the OEM & buying the missiles & spares for the kit.
Next, Alpha Epsilon also made the point that the RMN are "close" to completing the deal for Batch II Lekiu's. The RMN are well organised in many ways, especially the way they plan how, what & when they are going to purchase. To break the cycle at the moment would throw a whole "plan" out the window, as funds are no doubt dedicated to purchase particular items.
Finally, qwerty223 made some more valid points about the RMN mindset WRT operation and requirements. The RMN would effectively have to cut the ship in half, add a section for a hanger, consider replacing the engine management system, the engines, the shaft lines, etc, etc.
Cost effectively, unless the RMN were getting these 3 ships dirt cheap & were prepared to operate them as they are, it wouldn't be worth them getting involved.
The ships are capable enough, & would be ideal for another small, littoral nation who was looking for additional ships, or someone who is looking to bring their fleet into the 21st century very quickly.
The downside of all of this, is of course another point that qwerty223 made. The sale of these vessels will need a serious amount of negotiation, so that the ships go to a nation (Ally) that can be supplied by the UK / BAE / the Original Equipment Manufacturers. This fact limits the sale to a very short list of Nations...
Your thoughts......
Systems Adict
Here are some points to discuss / think about.
Todjaeger, made the point about replacing the Sea Wolf VLS system. At present the system is a derivative of the system fitted to the RN Type 23 Frigates, but is probably closer to the system fitted to the RMN Lekiu corvettes. The RN would love these boats, (armament of an FFG, but in an OPV's skin / highly automated, fewer personnel required), but I have a feeling that the cost would be out with budget constraints.
The system as is, is complete & will work. Other than testing it to prove to the customer that it would work, both the Sea Wolf & Exocet are unused.
Why then, would anyone want to rip out a "new" system, just to replace it with another manufacturers product that would do the same job?
Outlay to buy the ships, then retro fit them would be extremely expensive, in comparison to actually going to the OEM & buying the missiles & spares for the kit.
Next, Alpha Epsilon also made the point that the RMN are "close" to completing the deal for Batch II Lekiu's. The RMN are well organised in many ways, especially the way they plan how, what & when they are going to purchase. To break the cycle at the moment would throw a whole "plan" out the window, as funds are no doubt dedicated to purchase particular items.
Finally, qwerty223 made some more valid points about the RMN mindset WRT operation and requirements. The RMN would effectively have to cut the ship in half, add a section for a hanger, consider replacing the engine management system, the engines, the shaft lines, etc, etc.
Cost effectively, unless the RMN were getting these 3 ships dirt cheap & were prepared to operate them as they are, it wouldn't be worth them getting involved.
The ships are capable enough, & would be ideal for another small, littoral nation who was looking for additional ships, or someone who is looking to bring their fleet into the 21st century very quickly.
The downside of all of this, is of course another point that qwerty223 made. The sale of these vessels will need a serious amount of negotiation, so that the ships go to a nation (Ally) that can be supplied by the UK / BAE / the Original Equipment Manufacturers. This fact limits the sale to a very short list of Nations...
Your thoughts......
Systems Adict
contedicavour
New Member
The RN itself could take them as light FFGs for operations in areas such as the Caribbean or the Eastern Mediterranean. All systems aboard are similar to RN ships after all... This could help test the idea of lighter FFGs complementing the Type 45s and Type 23s.
cheers
cheers