British Army Discussions and Updates

[riksavage]

You don’t have to be a dual-passport holder to serve in the UK military, most Fijians or volunteers from the West Indies aren’t. Gurkha's are a different matter all together they join a specific Brigade under a separate recruitment system. Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders and South Africans et al can join any branch of the UK armed services.

I strongly believe the practice of letting Commonwealth soldiers serve in the UK military is an excellent idea as long as governments don’t start placing caveats on troops serving in overseas operations; for example a hypothetical British military operation in Zimbabwe, which the South African Government disapproves of, and subsequently bans any passport holders serving in the British military from taking part in.

The Irish Guards and Royal Irish both have strong connections to the Irish Republic, so do some of the Liverpool affiliated Battalions.

 

[buglerbilly]

You don’t have to be a dual-passport holder to serve in the UK military, most Fijians or volunteers from the West Indies aren’t. Gurkha's are a different matter all together they join a specific Brigade under a separate recruitment system. Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders and South Africans et al can join any branch of the UK armed services.

I strongly believe the practice of letting Commonwealth soldiers serve in the UK military is an excellent idea as long as governments don’t start placing caveats on troops serving in overseas operations; for example a hypothetical British military operation in Zimbabwe, which the South African Government disapproves of, and subsequently bans any passport holders serving in the British military from taking part in.

The Irish Guards and Royal Irish both have strong connections to the Irish Republic, so do some of the Liverpool affiliated Battalions.

Do me a favour and read what I said. I didn't say someone HAD to be a dual passport holder, I said it would be easier if one is a dual passport holder OR have lineage that was British, e.g. Grandparent.

The Commonwealth linkage is under direct threat from the EU as is the increasing difficulty in Commonwealth persons being able to be employed in the UK, the Forces included. The problem declines IF you are, for example, a pilot, technician or other technical specialist. BUT some kid walking in off the street from say Singapore is NOT going to find it easy to join any branch of the UK forces.

The EU on the other hand doesn't want Commonwealth peoples recognised as a special case by anybody, and its obvious from recent discussions and UK government announcements, that the current Labour leadership in the UK dislikes the Commonwealth as a group, as it mostly has for the last 50 years or so, partly due to their belief it is a carryover of the British Empire.

Far too Imperialistic for their left-wing stupidity..........

 

[swerve]

...
Alternatively maybe the UK should also look to Europe to recruit English speakers. Poland in particular has very strong historical connections due to the number of Poles who served during WWII and wnet on to marry local girls.

Not all the Poles who came over here during & after WW2 were male. The town where I live was one of the main centres for settlement of that lot, & I've seen many old Polish-speaking women at our local Polish church & social club.

Nowadays, new Polish-connected businesses are springing up like mad. Polish shops, a pub, ads in Polish in shops windows, Polish delicacies on the shelves of corner shops & supermarkets, banks recruiting Polish-speakers to deal with all the Poles in town & the church & social club being refurbished. They used to be used by a shrinking number of mostly old people, & the buildings were sinking into decrepitude along with the people: now they're crowded with young families, & there are a busy creche & sunday school in the social club.

I reckon you could man a brigade with Poles from this town - there are estimated to be 16000 Poles here now, & the age & gender mix is skewed towards men of military age. Of course, they already have jobs, or they wouldn't be here, but given the plentiful new connections with Poland, & the still high level of unemployment there, it might be practical to recruit a few thousand.

 

[V4.SKUNK]

What type of ammunition fired thru a L44 would make a L27A1 on par fired thru a L30A1. Can you elaborate a little more on this please.

Hmm, well im not familiar with NATO standard ammunitions, but to my knowledge L44 and L30 are comparable when firing sabots, obviously though L44 has a slight advantage, again to my understanding the advantage is only slight, while L30 has advantage with firing HESH nealry 1mile further than the NATO equivelant.

 

[riksavage]

I note with some satisfaction that by the end of the first quarter of 2008 the Royal Marines, the RAF Regiment and Mechanized, Light and Air Assault Infantry Battalions will ALL be issued with Grenade Machine Guns to compliment their current weapon scales of .50Cals, 7.62mm GPMG's, 5.56mm SAWS and LSW's.

The following is a testament to weapons fire-power in the hands of a competent operator (reported in the Times today)

"A BRITISH soldier who almost single-handedly took on 150 Taliban after he and his 50-man convoy were ambushed in Afghanistan has been awarded the Military Cross. Fusilier Damien Hields used his grenade machinegun to destroy seven Taliban positions before his ambushers realised he was their main threat. After peppering his vehicle with bullets, they hit the 24-year-old soldier. He had to be dragged off for treatment by his driver after he tried to continue fighting. “Fusilier Hields showed extraordinary courage under intense fire,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Huw James, his commanding officer. “I was astonished at the state of his vehicle. There were so many holes in it, it was like a teabag. The Taliban did everything in their power to neutralise [him] and Fusilier Hields was having none of it. His actions allowed his patrol to come out of the ambush in which they were outnumbered by three or four to one and probably saved a lot of lives.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3511901.ece

Most armoured vehicles today are equipped with coaxal 7.62mm machine / chain guns to compliment thier main armament. Maybe it's time to upgrade to one of theses beasts instead?

 

[Navor86]

Is it somewaht clear how many GMG,.20 HMG and GPMG are in those Support Companies,the Machine Gun Platoons more precise?

 

[kato]

the Machine Gun Platoons more precise?

They change the ToE of those platoons like every 4-6 months anyway.

 

[Navor86]

And the most current ToE of this MG Platoon is atm?

 

[GebInfBat77]

Is it somewaht clear how many GMG,.20 HMG and GPMG are in those Support Companies,the Machine Gun Platoons more precise?

in the mechanized Infantry Battalions and in the light role Infantry Battalions the MG Pl has 9 GPMG. The MG Pl in the Para Battalion has 6 GPMG / 4 L1A1 HMG (if mounted on tripod).

 

[swerve]

CTA CTWS selected for Warrior upgrade

Announced yesterday, perhaps being timed for the visit of Ms. Brunis husband, as a gesture of Anglo-French amity, like the RAF tanker contract signing (Cynical? Moi?).

About the gun - (3.65 meg presentation) - http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003gun/cta.pdf

Some good photos on Tony Williams excellent site -
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Eurosatory 2006.htm

Good news, I think. Looks like the best gun, it's half British, & being adopted by home country armed forces can't harm its export prospects.

 

[eckherl]

Announced yesterday, perhaps being timed for the visit of Ms. Brunis husband, as a gesture of Anglo-French amity, like the RAF tanker contract signing (Cynical? Moi?).

About the gun - (3.65 meg presentation) - http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003gun/cta.pdf

Some good photos on Tony Williams excellent site -
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Eurosatory 2006.htm

Good news, I think. Looks like the best gun, it's half British, & being adopted by home country armed forces can't harm its export prospects.

Nice power point presentation Swerve, do you think at a later date that they may opt for the unmanned turret for the Warrior.

 

[swerve]

Nice power point presentation Swerve, do you think at a later date that they may opt for the unmanned turret for the Warrior.

Interesting question, to which I have no answer. The unmanned turret would certainly be preferable for lighter vehicles, or anything bumping up against a weight or height limit.

I find the compactness of the CTWS in relation to its firepower very impressive.

You know that the weapon chosen for the Warrior lethality programme (WLIP) is also planned for use on the UKs next recce vehicle? So it now has two planned platforms in the UK. I'm not sure what AFV the French are thinking of using it on.

I can see other uses for it, e.g. it could be a very good weapon (with air burst ammunition) for self-defence of ships against small fast boats.

 

[buglerbilly]

I'm not sure what AFV the French are thinking of using it on.

They are also going to use it on a Recon vehicle of what I presume is the VBCI or a derivative thereof................

 

[Combatintman]

Light role should be scaled for 9 x GMG and 9 x GPMG according to the 2007 AFC8005s (establishment tables)

 

[flyboyEB]

Hey all, just a general question.
Is every member of the Special Forces Support Group parachute trained?
I mean the Royal Marine members in particular, although at the moment I'm under the impression that the SFSG is 1 PARA, but when it is the 'mulit-service' unit it was supposed to be, will all members be para trained?

 

[ROCK45]

British army

I hope I have this in the correct thread in the US helicopters are mainly US Army and/or US Marines, there are some US Air Force helicopters squadrons.

A article about England may lose there helicopter industry.

A £1 billion helicopter project has been "offered up as a sacrifice" for defence cuts as the Ministry of Defence struggles to manage its funding crisis, it was claimed yesterday.

The termination of the Future Lynx deal would herald the end of major helicopter manufacturing in Britain if Gordon Brown decides to go ahead with the reductions.

A decision on auditing major defence projects has been delayed to the end of next month with the Government attempting to avoid embarrassing job losses just before local elections on Thursday.

But defence sources said it was now "highly likely" that the order for 70 Future Lynx utility helicopters, which were to be bought for the Army and the Royal Navy, will be axed.

The decision could lead to the closure of the Westland helicopter plant in Yeovil, Somerset, with the loss of 800 jobs.

In 1986 Michael Heseltine, then Defence Secretary, stormed out of the Cabinet in a row over competing deals to rescue Westland.

Douglas Carswell, a Tory MP who has written a paper on scrapping the Lynx deal with the Italian firm Finmeccanica, said: "This is a bad deal and the sooner we get out of it the better. We could announce, for example, that we would buy the same amount of helicopters from Sikorsky – and still have £580 million to spend addressing funding shortages elsewhere in the Armed Forces." He added that the Sikorsky Seahawk helicopters would be available within 12 months. The Lynx is not expected in service until 2013.

The American-built Seahawks would cost £6 million, or the MoD could buy the well-regarded EADS Eurocopter at £4.5 million each rather than the £14 million for each Lynx.

The likely cut will be part of an "examination" of major projects as the MoD faces a £1 billion hole in defence spending this year. Questions over the future size of the Navy will also be asked. The auditors will look at whether six of the Type 45 air defence destroyers will be sufficient, rather than the eight that senior sailors believe will be the "minimum" necessary to protect aircraft carriers.

But one programme that defence sources have confirmed is certain to go ahead will be the two aircraft carriers being built for £4 billion in Scottish constituencies with strong Labour Party ties.

The issues are expected to come up on Thursday when industry chiefs meet Baroness Taylor, the defence procurement minister .
Story from Telegraph News:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1906393/UK-helicopter-industry-'will-die-in-MoD-cuts'.html
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Link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1906393/UK-helicopter-industry-'will-die-in-MoD-cuts'.html

 

[swerve]

If (big if, because the development money has now largely been spent. so most of that saving is imaginary, even if Seahawks could be bought at that price with the same capabilities, which they can't, & the only "Eurocopter" at that price is much smaller) Future Lynx is cancelled, it won't be the end of helicopter manufacturing in Britain. The AW101 is now made only in the UK (the Italian military has had AW101s from that line), & the AW149 is being developed here, with the intent of building it here. Agusta Westland is concentrating civil helicopter building in Italy & military in the UK, apart from the A129 (which had not been built for some time), which has been sold to Turkey including manufacturing rights. Civil is by far the larger part, of course, & includes civil helicopters bought by armed forces, e.g. the AW139, but it's possible, given booming sales & the fall of the pound, that AW could decide to move more manufacturing over here.

The Torygraph is electioneering. In case nobody has noticed, I should tell you that much of the UK is voting in local elections today.

 

[riksavage]

Finally.............

The Ministry of Defence has today, Thursday 8 May 2008, announced the provisional selection of Piranha 5 as the preferred design for the Future Rapid Effect System (FRES) Utility Vehicle, the first of the Army's programme for a new force of battlefield armoured vehicles.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...orFutureArmouredVehicleForBritishArmyfres.htm

The first stage will be to replace the 'battlefield taxis', namely Saxon and some 432's.

With the introduction of Mastiff, Ridgeback and upgraded Bulldogs I can see the FRES order being cut-back. We also still await the announcement of the recce version, IMHO should remain a tracked vehicle following on from lessons learnt in Afghanistan - go anywhere ability of CVRT / Viking vs. the Canadian experience with their Piranha's.

 

[peterAustralia]

Hi all,

Out of curiosity I was wondering whatever happened to the Stormer 30 armored vehicle from Alvis. On paper it looked like a good replacement for the Scimitar/Scorpion family of vehicles.

Apparently now the British are looking at something called the FRES as their new light armored vehicle. My understanding was that they were looking at off the shelf European vehicles, but are now looking at making something new, correct/not correct

When will a new family of vehicles arrive.

 

[swerve]

FRES is the name (an acronym, actually) of the set of requirements for future medium & light armoured vehicles. It does not refer to a specific vehicle, or even family of vehicles. It describes roles which need to be filled, not vehicles to fill them.

So far, one vehicle (the Piranha V) has been provisionally selected to fill one role. Recent purchases of vehicles under UORs (urgent operational requirements) may mean that the lower end of the FRES requirements set may be judged to have been filled ad-hoc, narrowing the scope of the rest of the programme, but an armoured recce vehicle (probably tracked) is definitely still on the wanted list.