Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[SuperSLime]

They may as well just manufacture thier own M16's, SIG 540/550's, or STANAG compatible Galil's/R4's. Or a front magazined version of the AUG?

The M-16 and the SIGs are old designs; there's little point in adopting them. The Galil is reliable but heavy and has ergonomics issues. The cost of redesigning the AUG for a relatively small purchase would be absurd.

Australia should keep the AUGs for the moment if they are happy enough with them, and look at a medium-term purchase of a new rifle.

 

[SuperSLime]

IMHO I think all countries should replace the 5.56mm with the 6.5mm or 6.8mm. Its not the rifles but the bullets that need to be replaced.

I tend to agree. Even adding one or two 7.62 DMRs per Section would be a big improvement, and probably easier to get past the bean counters than a complete calibre replacement.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I tend to agree. Even adding one or two 7.62 DMRs per Section would be a big improvement, and probably easier to get past the bean counters than a complete calibre replacement.

A mix of 6.5/6.8mm and 7.62mm will be a big improvement over the 5.56mm. The 5.56mm is just not good enough anymore and does not have much stopping power as some U.S. troops in Iraq have stated.

 

[SuperSLime]

A mix of 6.5/6.8mm and 7.62mm will be a big improvement over the 5.56mm. The 5.56mm is just not good enough anymore and does not have much stopping power as some U.S. troops in Iraq have stated.

I know what you're saying, and I agree, but I think the best anyone is going to get just now is a 5.56 infantry rifle backed up by 7.62 DMRs. The cost of replacing the infantry rifle AND ammunition in the middle of a war would make the MoD bean counters squeal like piggies.

 

[Cutaway]

The Calico M960 chambered in a rifle cartridge may be an ideal assault rifle, but may have to lack the hellical magazine arrangement to comply with NATO magazine standards.

 

[SuperSLime]

The Calico M960 chambered in a rifle cartridge may be an ideal assault rifle, but may have to lack the hellical magazine arrangement to comply with NATO magazine standards.

Oh for text deleted sake.

The Calico M960 is a 9mm SMG.

Stop finding exotic weapons and suggesting ridiculous conversions of them. To convert a 9mm to a rifle cartridge is not feasible without a TOTAL redesign.

Mod edit: Text deleted due to language. There is no need for swearing and it is against forum rules, please keep that in mind when posting.

 

[Cutaway]

I know FFS the M960 is an SMG but it still could form the basis of an Assault Rifle, It uses the H&K type roller action which will make it safe to fire rifle rounds alongside it making it easier to clean/produce maintain at a cheap price. The M960 ergonomics also make it steady and well aimed when fired.

The only thing to change really is the hellical drum mag arrangement so it would comply with STANAG magazines & 90 Rounder/100rnd C-MAG's, Alongside a bayonet lug, sight rails and the ability to mount a 40mm launcher.

 

[SuperSLime]

I know FFS the M960 is an SMG but it still could form the basis of an Assault Rifle.

Why bother? There are a dozen good assault rifle designs available without bastardising an SMG.

Iuses the H&K type roller action which will make it safe to fire rifle rounds alongside it making it easier to clean

WTF?? Roller-delayed weapons get FILTHY! When it comes to cleaning, H&Ks are the grottiest weapons I have ever encountered.

The only thing to change really is the hellical drum mag arrangement so it would comply with STANAG magazines & 90 Rounder/100rnd C-MAG's, Alongside a bayonet lug, sight rails and the ability to mount a 40mm launcher.

Pretty much everything then.

This idea is a complete non-starter.

 

[Cutaway]

It might, You never know till you try

 

[SuperSLime]

It might, You never know till you try

No. Why go to all that trouble? The Calico was designed as an SMG. There is nothing at all about the design to suggest that it is suitable for conversion to a rifle. It was designed to handle a pistol round, not the much greater stress of rifle ammo. Also, delayed blowback weapons are yesterday's news. Even H&K have given up on them. There is a reason for this.

This is a daft idea.

 

[lobbie111]

Every weapon in production today has not had its operating system fundamentally changed, the systems have only had it updated for modern times, even systems such as the TDI Kriss super V uses the same firing mechanism as every other weapon, just with an ingenious recoil mitagation system. No-one can truly say that any weapon has an advantage over any other weapon as they are all variations of the same design.

The new Steyr from Steyr (The A3) Is possibly the best looking and most multirole weapon I have seen in a long time have a look at these pics.

 

[SuperSLime]

No-one can truly say that any weapon has an advantage over any other weapon as they are all variations of the same design.

I don't agree with that. The L85A1 was a noticeably inferior weapon to the AR-18 despite using the same action. The FN-FAL is better than the G3. There are LOTS of examples of some weapons having advantages over others.

Just about every method of operating a firearm has been tried. The reason that virtually every weapon today has a gas piston system is that this system has proven to be superior to the others.

 

[Cutaway]

This is a daft idea.

Well just redesign it to withstand the stress of the rifle round.

Regarding weapon actions, Maybe manufacture somthing well tried & reliable like the Bren/M1918 BAR/FM-24 Chatellerault/FG42 but scaled down as a 5.56 assault rifle.

 

[SuperSLime]

Well just redesign it to withstand the stress of the rifle round.

In other words, start again almost from scratch and end up with a weapon based on an operating system that nobody wants to use any more.

Regarding weapon actions, Maybe manufacture somthing well tried & reliable like the Bren/M1918 BAR/FM-24 Chatellerault/FG42 but scaled down as a 5.56 assault rifle.

Don't be absurd. Apart from the FG42 (used in only one limited production and obsolete weapon) these are all very old MACHINE GUN actions; why would you want to use them for a rifle? They all fire from an open bolt. In case you weren't aware, rifles are supposed to be ACCURATE.

Some well-tried and reliable rifle actions:

FN-FAL, AR-18, G36, AK, FNC, M14.

Put these together with promising new designs like the HK416/417 and FN SCAR, and there is clearly no shortage of decent rifle designs. Why create a pointless fuckup like a 5.65mm Calico - which would just be an inferior rip-off of the HK33 - or something designed around a completely unsuitable MG action?

 

[Cutaway]

Some well-tried and reliable rifle actions:

FN-FAL, AR-18, G36, AK, FNC, M14.

Thats why i said the IMBEL 97 last time on the other site as its a 5.56 FAL.

Suppose one of those rifles mentioned but in a modern round.

Or somthing different like the FARA 83, LAPA FA-03.

 

[SuperSLime]

Thats why i said the IMBEL 97 last time on the other site as its a 5.56 FAL.

Great. A full-size rifle firing 5.56mm. What a waste of time.

Suppose one of those rifles mentioned but in a modern round.

That would apply to the AR-18, G36 and FNC. The others already fire a satisfactory round.

Or somthing different like the FARA 83, LAPA FA-03.

A mediocre Argentinian design and a failed Brazilian one, neither of which was ever adopted in large numbers and both of which are now out of production? No thanks.

 

[SuperSLime]

The British .19 calibre(4.85mm) that was used in the XL64 rifle was rumoured to have better ballistics and range than the 5.56 NATO

The current issue a lot of troops have is that the 5.56mm fires too light a bullet and lacks stopping power. Why on Earth would you want to fire an EVEN SMALLER bullet out of exactly the same cartridge case? This would just worsen the problem.

 

[Cutaway]

Batches of the FARA 83 are still used by the Argentine forces, Alongside the FA-03 is in use by the BOPE but still scarce.

The SIG 540/542/550 are supposed to be reliable, and very much like the FNC but i believe alot cheaper and simpler. SuperSLime, have you ever used any of these rifles?, If so what are they like?

 

[SuperSLime]

Batches of the FARA 83 are still used by the Argentine forces, Alongside the FA-03 is in use by the BOPE but still scarce.

The SIG 540/542/550 are supposed to be reliable, and very much like the FNC but i believe alot cheaper and simpler. SuperSLime, have you ever used any of these rifles?, If so what are they like?

Only 1200 FARA 83s were made. The FA-03 is MUCH scarcer. Neither of them is a particularly special design, and certainly nowhere near modern European rifles.

The newer SIG rifles are generally similar to the FNC, but only in the sense that most modern assault rifles are (gas operated, rotary bolt). I've never fired one, but I have used SIG pistols and found them very reliable. However, being Swiss, one thing they have NEVER been accused of is being cheap.

 

[Cutaway]

But i did hear about SIG wanting to manufacture cheaper rifles after the reliable but heavy SIG 510 "standard issue light machine gun" of a battle rifle.

And about me mentioning the M1918 BAR/FM24 action for a 5.56 rifle, I meant if it used the same gas operation but instead fired from a closed bolt. It may be a machine gun action but may still work.