Australian Army Discussions and Updates

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Stampede

Well-Known Member
Armchair said:
Australia’s defence strategy is to deter aggression by projecting force in its northern approaches. There isn’t much point (given that strategy) having an army if it can’t get to those islands by sea. If the forces to be projected come from two places (e.g. Darwin and Townsville) then they would need to be moved by at least two vessels. 2 LHDs and an LPD can’t guarantee that so the ADF needs a larger littoral lift capacity than it has now.

You can certainly debate the strategy, and whether the Army should operate the watercraft, and whether the ADF could escort / protect two task forces but I would imagine both classes of vessel would be useful in benign environments outside of war and also before / after the hugh threat phases of a major war (and also that in coalition operations some of the force protection would be provided by others).
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I'm actually quite favourable to the LCM and LCH
We have needed this sort of capability for decades.

Just find it interesting.
Army is acquiring a wider variety of capabilities yet is currently sacrificing numbers in other areas.

Its dynamic and may well be the right move for the future, but it must be acknowledged there is a lot of change.
Now add to the change this massive build up in capability for littoral manoeuvre.

Its actually a very big move.

Therefore it is of interest as to what the LCM and LCH will look like and therefore what capability they bring to the ADF.
Add to this the ambitious timetable to get these vessels into service.

So fair question to ask what is happening.

For the new LCM being the same size as our old LCH, one could surmise their capability would be similar in load out and range.
What details are available look very conservative in that area.
We should see some more information soon as the class enters production.
A working prototype should not be far from completion

The LCH Class of eight vessels in the 3000 / 5000t range regardless of shape is a major project.
Who would of thought we would get anything like this a few years ago.

What will this fleet carry.
The Army as is, or one that will expand down the track!!

More Boxers
More IFV's
More ????????

Interesting stuff



Cheers S
 
A

Armchair

Well-Known Member
Stampede said:
What will this fleet carry.
The Army as is, or one that will expand down the track!!

More Boxers
More IFV's
More ????????

Interesting stuff
Cheers S
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Yes I agree it is interesting but the question about what they will carry comes down to the strategy.
Most previous overseas deployments in the last 20 years were rotations in benign maritime/ air environments across large distances from Australia. The sort of deployment they seem to be contemplating now would be across relatively short distances (potentially under threat).

The problem the government has expressed is not that they need more equipment/ units to load on to their new littoral lift vessels (they are cutting equipment acquisition plans as you know) but they don’t have enough vessels (of varying sizes) to lift what they do have.

Given that all of the heavy armour will be in Townsville I imagine that lifting an armoured battle group would still be the job of a LHD. My guess is they would plan for LC-H to carry a light infantry company and some missile batteries to plonk on an island somewhere.
 
B

Bob53

Well-Known Member
John Fedup said:
Canada’s investment in Army kit is minimal compared to the RCN and RCAF. Perhaps one factor for this is recruitment difficulties? The same likely applies to other commonwealth allies in the 5EYE family.
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In Canadas case I very big brother next door acting as land deterrent. So they don’t see the need and have minimal requirement for army deployments,
 
A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Australian Government announces acquisition of precision loitering munition


Interesting timing, given the news about the newly created “LAND 300 - Dismounted combat capability” we’ve just heard about, consolidating our various soldier focussed land combat projects. I wonder if this is a “get it out of the news” political decision? Happy with the call, but surely a US made short ranged armed loitering munition can hardly be ADF’s highest capability acquisition priority? I’d have thought a counter-UAS system would rank at least if not more important?

  • 8 JULY 2024

    Australian soldiers will be equipped with the Switchblade 300 precision loitering munition, providing a critical combat edge and adding to drone capabilities available to the Australian Defence Force (ADF).

    The acquisition of the Switchblade 300 boosts the ADF’s arsenal of drones, including those capable of being armed.

    The Switchblade 300 is a lightweight, portable precision loitering munition system with superior payload, range, time to target and operator functionality.

    This acquisition underscores the Albanese Government’s commitment to equipping ADF personnel with world‑leading lethality and protection to ensure they are capable of successfully conducting tasks and maintaining an advantage against potential adversaries.

    The Switchblade 300 will add to the ADF’s large array of drones, including models that can be armed. The ADF has several different types of non-armed drones and drones capable of being armed, including models that have been in service for more than a decade.

    Defence expects the first Switchblade 300 will be delivered to Australia later this year and introduced into service in 2025.

    Quotes attributable to Minister for Defence Industry, the Hon Pat Conroy MP:

    “The prosperity and security of our nation and will always be a top priority for the Albanese Government. That’s why giving our soldiers the critical capabilities they need to protect Australians, and their interests, is paramount.

    “With autonomous weapon systems increasingly prevalent, the Defence Strategic Review made clear that new technology and asymmetric advantage are important priorities. That’s why the Government is taking action to enhance the ADF’s use of drones.

    “The delivery of this proven precision loitering munition demonstrates the speed at which we are introducing capabilities to the ADF. It shows the Australian Government is getting on with the job of providing the ADF with state-of-the-art technologies it needs to meet the threats we face.”

    MEDIA NOTE: Vision of the Switchblade 300 is available here. Other related releases
 
S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
ADMk2 said:
Australian Government announces acquisition of precision loitering munition


Interesting timing, given the news about the newly created “LAND 300 - Dismounted combat capability” we’ve just heard about, consolidating our various soldier focussed land combat projects. I wonder if this is a “get it out of the news” political decision? Happy with the call, but surely a US made short ranged armed loitering munition can hardly be ADF’s highest capability acquisition priority? I’d have thought a counter-UAS system would rank at least if not more important?

  • 8 JULY 2024

    Australian soldiers will be equipped with the Switchblade 300 precision loitering munition, providing a critical combat edge and adding to drone capabilities available to the Australian Defence Force (ADF).

    The acquisition of the Switchblade 300 boosts the ADF’s arsenal of drones, including those capable of being armed.

    The Switchblade 300 is a lightweight, portable precision loitering munition system with superior payload, range, time to target and operator functionality.

    This acquisition underscores the Albanese Government’s commitment to equipping ADF personnel with world‑leading lethality and protection to ensure they are capable of successfully conducting tasks and maintaining an advantage against potential adversaries.

    The Switchblade 300 will add to the ADF’s large array of drones, including models that can be armed. The ADF has several different types of non-armed drones and drones capable of being armed, including models that have been in service for more than a decade.

    Defence expects the first Switchblade 300 will be delivered to Australia later this year and introduced into service in 2025.

    Quotes attributable to Minister for Defence Industry, the Hon Pat Conroy MP:

    “The prosperity and security of our nation and will always be a top priority for the Albanese Government. That’s why giving our soldiers the critical capabilities they need to protect Australians, and their interests, is paramount.

    “With autonomous weapon systems increasingly prevalent, the Defence Strategic Review made clear that new technology and asymmetric advantage are important priorities. That’s why the Government is taking action to enhance the ADF’s use of drones.

    “The delivery of this proven precision loitering munition demonstrates the speed at which we are introducing capabilities to the ADF. It shows the Australian Government is getting on with the job of providing the ADF with state-of-the-art technologies it needs to meet the threats we face.”

    MEDIA NOTE: Vision of the Switchblade 300 is available here. Other related releases
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Many layers to defence

One is getting the archer rather than the arrows

Cheers S
 
B

Bob53

Well-Known Member
It’s good that we are getting something but I don’t disagree about counter drone. I’m a bit surprised we … or not surprised??! That we have gone with an expensive option when there are some low cost alternatives seemingly coming online weekly.
Pretty much every land based missile system, armour and infantry unit will be a target of missiles, bombs, artillery and now drones. I read Austria and Germany have ordered and are putting Skyranger AA turrets on Boxers to accompany all armour formations.
 
S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
ADMk2 said:
Yes, but the relative priority is my point. Hence my comment.
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Fair comment
Trust they are working on active soft and hard kill defence and offensive systems.
Speculation only, but the timing may just be that this system was available first.


Cheers S
 
V

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
There seems to be a low fuss, low fanfare move to acquire needed capabilities.

We seem to be back to the days of procuring a small tranche of an off the shelf capability and trying it out before placing a much larger order. Either a MOTS/COTS or a more tailored version or even kicking off a project to develop what we have determined, from experience derived from the initial acquisition, what we now know we need.

This is how it used to be done before defence became a vote winner with photo ops, and announcements Infront of a forest of Australian flags.

Get it, try it on, wear it out and decide if it fits and if we need more. Does the more need to be slightly different, totally different, or will the current production standard do just fine.

If it doesn't fit, doesn't work, can we get it to where we need in a reasonable time, at a reasonable cost, or do we try something different.

No is the small remaining window for experimentation before choosing a path and sticking to it.
 
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M

MickB

Well-Known Member
Stampede said:
Fair comment
Trust they are working on active soft and hard kill defence and offensive systems.
Speculation only, but the timing may just be that this system was available first.


Cheers S
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Reported defence involvement in Slinger 30mm anti drone gun system by EOS.

ADF trials of directed energy anti drone system made by AIM Defence.

Just two recently reported examples of the ADF activly seeking counter drone systems.
 
A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Stampede said:
Fair comment
Trust they are working on active soft and hard kill defence and offensive systems.
Speculation only, but the timing may just be that this system was available first.


Cheers S
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Could be. Could also be a political distraction too. Throw out a small contract (anything below $37m doesn’t even qualify for a DSCA announcement for example…) on a controversial, news click generating topic.

Neatly avoids any stickier questions on $72b in cuts to defence, including it’s own stated priorities, announced in it’s own Defence Strategic Review… For example the delays to IAMD. DSR specifically recommended it be expedited. Instead Government has done the exact opposite.

This announcement was also so important, it was relegated to the defence industry minister, to announce…

Obviously however, it doesn’t want to discuss the larger issues…

Now of course “off the shelf options” aren’t sufficient. But they are for general purpose frigates we are told…

:rolleyes:

IMG_0745.jpeg
 
A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Volkodav said:
There seems to be a low fuss, low fanfare move to acquire needed capabilities.

We seem to be back to the days of procuring a small tranche of an off the shelf capability and trying it out before placing a much larger order. Either a MOTS/COTS or a more tailored version or even kicking off a project to develop what we have determined, from experience derived from the initial acquisition, what we now know we need.

This is how it used to be done before defence became a vote winner with photo ops, and announcements Infront of a forest of Australian flags.

Get it, try it on, wear it out and decide if it fits and if we need more. Does the more need to be slightly different, totally different, or will the current production standard do just fine.

If it doesn't fit, doesn't work, can we get it to where we need in a reasonable time, at a reasonable cost, or do we try something different.

No is the small remaining window for experimentation before choosing a path and sticking to it.
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Except for the decade or more of “trials” and experimentation before they went ahead and bought an off the shelf system in use for more than 10 years by most of our aliies, via FMS…
 
V

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
ADMk2 said:
Except for the decade or more of “trials” and experimentation before they went ahead and bought an off the shelf system in use for more than 10 years by most of our aliies, via FMS…
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True, but we had a different government, with different priorities, ten years ago, so what we are talking is a decision made and order placed in less than three years ;).

In fact, looking back, it's not just changes in government that caused changes in direction on defence, it was changes in PM.

I'm just glad "stuff" is happening, not ideal, not enough, but something.
 
V

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
aussienscale said:
Guess the question is, is it stuff for the sake of stuff, pretending to be stuff we need, so it looks like you are doing stuff. Or is it stuff we need, but not enough stuff, of the stuff we need ;)
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The vibe I'm getting is it's like the early 90s. Killing stuff that wasn't delivering and acquiring quantities of alternatives MOTS and COTS to see how it fits and works.
 
B

Bob53

Well-Known Member
Apparently fix for the Hawkei brake issue has been found and effected vehicles being delivered from Thales. Wonder if this means they will be suitable fur the Ukraine now. IIMG_9086.png
 
aussienscale

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Bob53 said:
Apparently fix for the Hawkei brake issue has been found and effected vehicles being delivered from Thales. Wonder if this means they will be suitable fur the Ukraine now. IView attachment 51518
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No, we don't have enough of our own and don't exactly have the budget, Defence or otherwise to give them away either. Europe can continue to look after their own backyard, we have enough problems brewing over our own back fence.
 
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