ADF General discussion thread

Takao

Takao

The Bunker Group
MickB said:
After watching an article by Perun on how NATO countries will in future calculacte their defence spending as a percentage of GDP.
I wonder what Australia's % will be if using the same process.
I will admit to not knowing what is currently included and what is not.

If the costs of upgrades to Henderson, ASC , The ports at Darwin, Perth and Cairns, and the shared bases with the US were included as part of Defence spending.
Add in contributions to development costs for Ghost Bat and Ghost Shark.
Production facilities for Boxer,Redback, AS 9, missiles and shells might also be included.

Would these and other items not listed amount to a significant change to the total % of GDP in Australia.
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It's pretty rough, but including DVA, DHA, and all the things above, we calculated it was 2.9 - 3.2%.

Lots of assumptions and non-economist thinking in there, but a reasonable assessment.
 
M

Morgo

Well-Known Member
Looks like preparations for Talisman Sabre are ramping up.

Saw two Chinooks, two Blackhawks and a Romeo exercising over Sydney Harbour yesterday. Given the Chinooks and Blackhawks were all black presumably it was SOAS. Some impressive low level flying.

Good luck to all involved.
 
spoz

spoz

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Why on earth did the ABC report that? I suppose Defence had to release it or that guardian of anti Military ideology would have called it a cover up - but reallly. Aircraft have heavy landings every other day. Depends how hard the landing was I guess; it could be a euphemism for “aircraft written off”. But if not, it is going to happen from time to time.
 
M

Morgo

Well-Known Member
Not only did they report that but they also failed to mention that they’re being replaced by Apaches - which will be a world class capability and are due for delivery later this year. Pretty relevant and interesting fact for the readers?

The general level of curiousity or lack thereof in our journalists is quite astonishing.
 
S

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Takao said:
It's pretty rough, but including DVA, DHA, and all the things above, we calculated it was 2.9 - 3.2%.

Lots of assumptions and non-economist thinking in there, but a reasonable assessment.
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Rudd ‘confident’ on AUKUS review, rejects defence spending claims

Just to come back to this theme for moment. The above article is unfortunately paywalled, however it is a speach from Kevin Rudd (who seems to have remarkably remade his relations throughout the Trump administration team).

His speech covers some interesting points with a few relevent exerpts as follows:
  • Australia has been the crazy guy in the foxhole next to the Americans for every war of the 20th and 21st centuries
  • Rudd meets regularly with Colby, has a good relationship with him, known him for a long time, has him around to his house, and calls him by his nickname "Bridge". This is a surprisingly robust connection that I would not have expected. Maybe Rudd embellishes a bit.
  • He argues that Australia has been spending at its current levels (2%) for a lot longer than most other countries, so is not as hollowed out as others.
  • Australia uses a narrower definition of defence spending, and current expenditure would be in the order of 2.5% if the American definition is applied.
The above, since it is from our US ambasador, is perhaps an insight into the conversations that occur behind closed doors.

The last point is the first time I think I have seen a government communicated number on what we spend on defence based on international metrics. So we can add an additional 0.5%, meaning that over the 10 year period we get close to the 3% number.

On this basis we are not that different to the Europeans and there is perhaps at most another half percent in it.

I should note that our defence adjacent spending is probably more than the 1.5% as well.
 
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