Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0
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I wonder if “swappable” batteries might be a capability they are pursuing? Something like using a submarine tender, lift the Ghostshark out, swap batteries and off it goes with it’s full range intact.
Don’t even bother trying to make the vessel able to recharge, just the battery module and swap it out when necessary and it recharges on the tender?
Then it is just a logistical exercise of how many battery modules and payloads do you need to support how many Ghostsharks for how long a mission duration you envisage…
Could also work.
A battery to provide the range stated will be large, something in the order of a MWh (two tesla truck batteries), possibly more. I'm thinking it might extend the length of the payload bay and perhaps the bottom third. This would be heavy, around 6-8 tonnes.
Some truck chargers are able to do around 500kw (which os a medium sized genset), so 2-3 hour turn around time, either charging the drone directly or charging spare batteries to swap out.
A bit of rough calculation based on 2000nm @ 3 knots would give it an endurance of 28 days. If it just sat on the bottom it could last longer than that. Of course there could be other draws on the power so you can take my number with a proverbial grain of salt. You have other mission limiting issues such as biofouling and maintenance. Once in their area of operation, endurance is probably adequate. The challenge could be getting them to where they are needed. Conroy suggested a "Ghost in a Box" but that then depends on either dropping them off a surface ship, or finding allies willing to allow use of their ports. Of course if we do find ourselves dependent on foriegn support it brings into question how soveriegn that capability really is.
It is when you start scaling up the numbers things start to get complex. We will start with dozens, who knows how large that fleet will eventually grow.
It is when you start scaling up the numbers things start to get complex. We will start with dozens, who knows how large that fleet will eventually grow.
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Engine and propellor sounds, and other ship generated noises. These all create unique sound signatures. Modern sonar passive systems already do this with a human then confirming. We would already be able to signature match every Chinese Naval ship, and I suspect they would for us.
When the Chinese sailed around Australia a while back, I imagine we got some crystal clear sounds from all vessels, including the submarine that came with them.
I am aware that each submarine, even from the same class sounds slightly different.
Exactly how capable the ghost shark's sonar system is of detecting these subtlies, I don't know. I would however assume it has a significant library of acoustic noises and vessel libraries to match to.
But also, I would suspect the ADF routinely tracks where foreign vessels and submarines are, either directly itself or via other allied nations.
Exactly how capable the ghost shark's sonar system is of detecting these subtlies, I don't know. I would however assume it has a significant library of acoustic noises and vessel libraries to match to.
But also, I would suspect the ADF routinely tracks where foreign vessels and submarines are, either directly itself or via other allied nations.
You could use the same conventions that apply to sea mines. Warn friendly shipping to steer clear of certain areas of water.
Murse
Member
Tom Clancy says that humans can in The Hunt for Red October and that's a good while ago
I expect AI will do it easily...
Which leads me to spoofing AI sonar as a way of detecting these sorts of platforms
bkue sentry sonar - Search Videos
For interest, linked is one of two towed array sonars used on Bluebottle (the other one is from ThayerMahan). By the looks similar systems are/will be employed from the Speartooth. One assumes that Ghost Shark has an equivalent or better.
The Thales system is a passive fibre optic technology. I'm less familiar with this approach, however I understand that it is remarkably sensitive with the right computational power. It's big advantage is that it is an order of magnitude lighter and more compact than the traditional piezo style hydrophone.
Towed arrays are more sensitive than hull mounted sonars, so a drone with one should be good.
Alternatively you could use a powered source from say a captas from a surface vessel to illuminate a region, with the drones then listening.
For interest, linked is one of two towed array sonars used on Bluebottle (the other one is from ThayerMahan). By the looks similar systems are/will be employed from the Speartooth. One assumes that Ghost Shark has an equivalent or better.
The Thales system is a passive fibre optic technology. I'm less familiar with this approach, however I understand that it is remarkably sensitive with the right computational power. It's big advantage is that it is an order of magnitude lighter and more compact than the traditional piezo style hydrophone.
Towed arrays are more sensitive than hull mounted sonars, so a drone with one should be good.
Alternatively you could use a powered source from say a captas from a surface vessel to illuminate a region, with the drones then listening.
Tom Clancy says that humans can in The Hunt for Red October and that's a good while ago
I expect AI will do it easily...
Which leads me to spoofing AI sonar as a way of detecting these sorts of platforms
Yes, but the computer kept thinking that it was picking up seismic anomalies!!
Hopefully things have improved since then, TBH the most disappointing thing I remember about the movie (and I watched it way after it came out) was that it had no Invincible class or County class destroyer in it!
Murse
Member
I re-read it last week camping. Lots of good bits missing from the film, sub-hunting Harrier anyone?
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
Could Colorado be the first Australian Virginia?
She is a Block III. Is Australia getting Block IIIs or Block IVs?
(Edit: Just checked Australia is getting Block IV, so Colorado out.)
She is a Block III. Is Australia getting Block IIIs or Block IVs?
(Edit: Just checked Australia is getting Block IV, so Colorado out.)
So is that up to four USN and one RN SSN at one time ,or is that as I suspect, one SSN at a time rotating through FBW from the other AUKUS partners.
Cheers S
I am not an expert but on manned submarines you would have passive and active sonars computers to analise such information ,the recent RIMPAC did though show A.I assisting in identifying targets but at what range ? .I am not sure if there is a system that fits after all in a small underwater drone without some compromise ,a heavy weight torpedoe like the mark 48 has a range of over fifty miles , would a Ghost Shark acquire and identify a target at such a range keeping pace with such a target would be problematic
The power requirements of the computer system and also the security risk if the data was to fall into the hands of a competitor.
What happened if it gets disabled and some fisherman finds it and gets injured or killed when the thing scuttles itself?
Lots of very large fishing nets in the Pacific
I suspect a reasonably good sonar package could detect a standard cruising surface ship at distances up to and over 50 nm. A modern Mk48 is good for about 25-30nm. It would never be fired at the maximum range as a ship would hear the torpedo as soon as it was launched and high tail it the other way. To effectively be in the no escape zone, a ship needs to be about 10-15 nm away at most. A torpedo is still a close in weapon.
Ghost shark style drones will never be used to follow a ship, they will be positioned to intercept, mostly from information passed to them from another source, potentially several days beforehand. Ghost Shark manages its slow speed via large numbers prepositioned in an operational area
The Anduril Copperhead torpedo operates a little different to the Mk48. It is in effect a small loitering drone. It can be sent out on independent recon, and then activate in torpedo mode a substantial distance/time from the Ghost Shark itself. A Ghost Shark could send one or multiple out ahead of an intercept point, which then wait in silence and go live when the target is close.
devo99
Well-Known Member
The former.
I have it on good authority that USS Colorado is one of the best kept of the Block IIIs and a good boat generally so at least we're not getting the dregs as some continue to obsessively claim.