6th Generation Fighters Projects

John Fedup said:

Perhaps China is sucking the US into proceeding with F/A XX thinking this will impede the F-47 as the drunk running the Pentagon claims. Just to be clear, IMHO F/A XX is absolutely necessary assuming CVNs are still deemed desirable.

Click to expand...

We are in uncertain times. We have seen drone and AI technology evolve at such a rate that we can no longer make any accurate predictions about what will be relevant in 10 or 20 years time. CVNs would definitely fall into that category.

On the otherhand the Defence Department is apparantly concerned about the industrial bases ability to produce two major next-gen fighter aircraft programs at the same time.

koxinga said:

Well then, it is claimed that a third design (6th gen?) has flown in China.

Various claims being made (CCA, naval fighter) but nothing clear for now. Perhaps following the pattern of the other disclosures, more photos might appear soon.

View attachment 53247

Click to expand...

Thay China seems to be making so little effort to hide these designs makes me think they are just demonstrators. and possibly not even the ones they want to progress with. When I see these things on the ground they really don't look that stealthy. With this one they don't seem to have made any effort to hide that third air scoop.

koxinga said:

And here we go.

View attachment 53248

Click to expand...

Earlier J-50 was speculated to have rotating rudder but it didn't turn out that way.

Now with this new 3rd jet it is speculated to have variable geometry wing. If true then it leaves very less area for control surfaces, only ailerons, no flaps.

Some diagrams are also being made around guesses.




If this is for Navy then such high sweep body may need canards for low speed approach.

On belly there seems to be 6 panels to be part of IWB door, probably for BVRAAMs.
And then 5 shorter panels behind, probably for CCMs.
It is unclear how would they open -
- individually
- 1:1
- 2:1 bi-fold

Some new graphics render has come out by NG for F/A-XX.
It loos like a delta wing, with 2 rudders, only top flat intakes with middle separator.
Dark & difficult to see under wing & belly. There seems to be SWB & IWB.

The new family of missiles that MBDA will integrate on GCAP and FCAS now has a name: STRATUS.

Some information regarding the France-Germany dispute wrt workshare on FCAS. The options for a walkout by either party don’t look good. Agree, Germany joining GCAP isn’t really beneficial for the current GCAP partners and a German Swedish collaborator action would take more time. Given France’s political situation, going alone will be difficult even if Spain and Belgium stay on board. The other obstacle is France’s need for a future naval jet.

John Fedup said:

Some information regarding the France-Germany dispute wrt workshare on FCAS. The options for a walkout by either party don’t look good. Agree, Germany joining GCAP isn’t really beneficial for the current GCAP partners and a German Swedish collaborator action would take more time. Given France’s political situation, going alone will be difficult even if Spain and Belgium stay on board. The other obstacle is France’s need for a future naval jet.

Germany Considers Split From France On Next Generation Fighter

Disagreements over Future Combat Air System workshare mean Germany is also looking at teaming up with the UK or Sweden on its future crewed fighter. Disagreements over Future Combat Air System workshare mean Germany is also looking at teaming up with the UK or Sweden on its future crewed fighter.

www.twz.com

Click to expand...

I don't think they will actually stop the program and I really don't see France or Germany leaving it.
They simply have no other option, GCAP workshare is basically figured out (and Airbus really need a protagonist role) so Germany joining GCAP is to be excluded. Or at least extremely unlikely.

France, at the same time, has the know how but can't sustain a 6th gen program alone.
Everyone knows it and Airbus of course demanded a higher workshare than Dassault expected.

Dassault, frightened by the prospect of giving up its expertise or at least losing its leading role in fighter jets compared to Airbus, is trying to raise a fuss.
They are probably foreseeing a future where they end up being absorbed in Airbus...as a worst case.

The "swedish option" is honestly not really serious.

So... interesting to see what'll happen...

France may need two programs, FCAS with Germany with a lessened role for Dassault and another with Dassault and another foreign partner in a CATOBAR program. Only one likely partner I can think of and that country is a Rafale customer. Sadly, both can be a real pita.

France doesn’t want to make that kind of investment. The goal with FCAS is to have one airframe that they can use from carriers and from land bases. That’s why Dassault wants to keep a strong presence in the program. So France has its independence as a CATOBAR fighter maker.
Breaking up the program into two would significantly increase the cost factor in France whom is already chafing about budget.

Farther who could partner with France for a naval fighter? There are all of Three Navies that have catapult-assisted take-off but arrested recovery type carriers. The United States, France and now China. Longer term India’s Vishal project hopes for one but Indian procurement and development… The program doesn’t have a proper timetable. India is probably the only country who might be interested but it’s so nebulous.

Would Canada be an option as a partner in this?

seaspear said:

Would Canada be an option as a partner in this?

Click to expand...

No! Might be a potential GCAP export customer though.

Terran said:

France doesn’t want to make that kind of investment. The goal with FCAS is to have one airframe that they can use from carriers and from land bases. That’s why Dassault wants to keep a strong presence in the program. So France has its independence as a CATOBAR fighter maker.
Breaking up the program into two would significantly increase the cost factor in France whom is already chafing about budget.

Farther who could partner with France for a naval fighter? There are all of Three Navies that have catapult-assisted take-off but arrested recovery type carriers. The United States, France and now China. Longer term India’s Vishal project hopes for one but Indian procurement and development… The program doesn’t have a proper timetable. India is probably the only country who might be interested but it’s so nebulous.

Click to expand...

I think France’s need for a naval fighter is a big issue and a prime reason for Germany’s disenchantment with FCAS. There are extra costs for a naval fighter design as well as performance differences. WRT other navies, I think India will eventually go CATOBAR in the future (perhaps distant future).